FBI Sting Operation; Rabbis Arrested

[Menachem613]

-1

In case you didn't see my last post before you posted this, I'm talking about the fundamental differences in how the issues are resolved, not how difficult it is for the woman.
(I should know by now that everything needs to spelled out here...)

US law provides a way out for a woman in an abusive relationship. The difficulty for the woman in actually doing it is another story, but the system is in place. If she gets her head in the right place, and/or has the support she needs from friends/family, as difficult as it may be, it can be done. Ultimately it's in her hands to do something.

A woman whose husband absolutely refuses to give a get is SOL. She can be 100% determined and willing. she can have all the support in the world, but there's not a darn thing she can do if he refuses.

Apparently that's how the Rebbonoi Shel Oilem wanted it.

[Saver2000]

Apparently that's how the Rebbonoi Shel Oilem wanted it.

Thanx Mr.  threadcrapper.  Now what does that have anything to do with the current discussion?

[Menachem613]

Thanx Mr.  threadcrapper.  Now what does that have anything to do with the current discussion?

We shouldn't be trying to circumvent the Ratzoin of the Rebboinoi Shel Oilum.

[Saver2000]

We shouldn't be trying to circumvent the Ratzoin of the Rebboinoi Shel Oilum.

Are you not following?? 

[SuperFlyer]

By the way, I'm surprised that the majority here, Americans have a problem with the amount paid...

Getting a legal divorce when the other half is resisting a little in court, cost how much ?

My brother was in the states and they wanted for a toot canal $1650. I said its cheaper to buy him a ticket to Europe, pay the dentist and have a good time, and the root canal wasn't even needed...

My grandmother had suddenly terrible pains in her stomach and had a minor operation and released 5 days later. Cost $250,000.

Don't come up with the insurance bla bla, as the basic insurance only cover this and that, and only at this location and many more restrictions

[Super Speed]

Apparently that's how the Rebbonoi Shel Oilem wanted it.

Seriously??? Are you frecken kidding? What the heck is wrong with you, you Jew hater? Get a life

[Ergel]

-1

In case you didn't see my last post before you posted this, I'm talking about the fundamental differences in how the issues are resolved, not how difficult it is for the woman.
(I should know by now that everything needs to spelled out here...)

US law provides a way out for a woman in an abusive relationship. The difficulty for the woman in actually doing it is another story, but the system is in place. If she gets her head in the right place, and/or has the support she needs from friends/family, as difficult as it may be, it can be done. Ultimately it's in her hands to do something.

A woman whose husband absolutely refuses to give a get is SOL. She can be 100% determined and willing. she can have all the support in the world, but there's not a darn thing she can do if he refuses.

That's all true. But again in practice it's not so simple

[whYME]

By the way, I'm surprised that the majority here, Americans have a problem with the amount paid...

I think the problem with the amount paid is that it makes it look like these guys were doing it for the money, not for pure reasons.
If it's considered a lot of money relative to other divorce proceedings is irrelevant to this discussion IMO.

[aygart]

We shouldn't be trying to circumvent the Ratzoin of the Rebboinoi Shel Oilum.

You mean like by being kofeh where the halacha says to?

[whYME]

That's all true. But again in practice it's not so simple

Of course it's not simple.
But that doesn't change my point.
What needs to be done to get a woman out of an abusive civil marriage and an agunah situation are totally different and in that aspect you cant equate the two.

[Menachem613]

You mean like by being kofeh where the halacha says to?

It's not clear from the facts as to whether Halacha allows that under these circumstances. This was addressed earlier by others.

[skyguy918]

Does it say anywhere what the undercover agent 'wife' said was the reason she wanted a get? I feel like I saw somewhere that she claimed he didn't want children, but I can't seem to find it.

[yuneeq]

It's not clear from the facts as to whether Halacha allows that under these circumstances. This was addressed earlier by others.

Yet, it is still clear to you that it's Retzon Hashem not to be Kofeh. What garbage.

[Super Speed]

Does it say anywhere what the undercover agent 'wife' said was the reason she wanted a get? I feel like I saw somewhere that she claimed he didn't want children, but I can't seem to find it.

I believe it says it in the court complaint papers.
ETA: Its in #16 in parenthesis.

[aygart]

It's not clear from the facts as to whether Halacha allows that under these circumstances. This was addressed earlier by others.

And I rearrange you that there is not even one person commenting here who is familiar enough with the facts to give an educated opinion about that. Therefore any comment like yours is at best inappropriate.

[Achas Veachas]

every comment of yours is at best inappropriate.

FTFY

[aygart]

Apparently that's how the Rebbonoi Shel Oilem wanted it.

This is a prime example. Yes the RBSO wanted it to be based upon the husband, but he also wanted that in certain cases there should be ways to "circumvent" this. As long as it is circumvented al pi halacha......

Get a life.

[Clown]

I'm not a regular contributor to the forum. I do read the deals though  .

I had personal involvement with ME. I do not think he did it for money. The complaint explicitly states that the $50,000 was for the thugs. It was $10,000 for the kangaroo "Beth Din". That's $3,333 per "dayan". ME made more than that per week. There was time, travel and risk involved in this one. $3,000 is not unreasonable.

However, in my personal case ME threatened me. I was probably a couple of days away of being beaten. The quick synopses of my case is that my ex refused to allow me to see or contact my kids, refused to attend a kosher beth din. It took the kosher beth din four months to grant me permission to go to court. (All the while we were separated, with my little kids being estranged from me.)

Things dragged and dragged. I did not have the $150,000 for a proper court battle. I went pro se, got proper visitation in court and offered to give a get. She refused and wanted to battle the court order -- in Beth Din. So, it dragged and dragged. Yes,she got one of these phony "beth dins" to reverse the court order.

At that point ME called me. I clearly explained that a get will be forthcoming as soon as A) we agree to follow the court order (where I was up against her lawyer...) and B) she follows through with visitation for 10 weeks. He agreed.

Four weeks later, while visitation was still NOT being kept, he called me up and threatened me. "You will give a get, and this will end now! One way or another, this is going to end".

I was advised to call Rabbi Belsky. Had ME tried some roasted eggs, Rabbi Belskey would have clearly ruled that the forced get is not kosher. It took another six months and Rabbi Belsky ruled to go back to the court order.

In conclusion: I feel ME did not do it for money. But all these posts about the "poor 'agunos'" are fare from accurate. Yes there are cases where the men are @#$^&. But, there are an equal amount of cases where the woman is the one behaving like an @#$%^&. ME indiscriminately sided with the woman. Having a goon like this out of business is good.

[hocker]

Seriously??? Are you frecken kidding? What the heck is wrong with you, you Jew hater? Get a life

+1

I'm not a regular contributor to the forum. I do read the deals though  .

I had personal involvement with ME. I do not think he did it for money. The complaint explicitly states that the $50,000 was for the thugs. It was $10,000 for the kangaroo "Beth Din". That's $3,333 per "dayan". ME made more than that per week. There was time, travel and risk involved in this one. $3,000 is not unreasonable.

However, in my personal case ME threatened me. I was probably a couple of days away of being beaten. The quick synopses of my case is that my ex refused to allow me to see or contact my kids, refused to attend a kosher beth din. It took the kosher beth din four months to grant me permission to go to court. (All the while we were separated, with my little kids being estranged from me.)

Things dragged and dragged. I did not have the $150,000 for a proper court battle. I went pro se, got proper visitation in court and offered to give a get. She refused and wanted to battle the court order -- in Beth Din. So, it dragged and dragged. Yes,she got one of these phony "beth dins" to reverse the court order.

At that point ME called me. I clearly explained that a get will be forthcoming as soon as A) we agree to follow the court order (where I was up against her lawyer...) and B) she follows through with visitation for 10 weeks. He agreed.

Four weeks later, while visitation was still NOT being kept, he called me up and threatened me. "You will give a get, and this will end now! One way or another, this is going to end".

I was advised to call Rabbi Belsky. Had ME tried some roasted eggs, Rabbi Belskey would have clearly ruled that the forced get is not kosher. It took another six months and Rabbi Belsky ruled to go back to the court order.

In conclusion: I feel ME did not do it for money. But all these posts about the "poor 'agunos'" are fare from accurate. Yes there are cases where the men are @#$^&. But, there are an equal amount of cases where the woman is the one behaving like an @#$%^&. ME indiscriminately sided with the woman. Having a goon like this out of business is good.

Thanks for sharing your experience, finally a comment that sheds some light on This story.

[churnbabychurn]

The money rabbi definitely wasnt in it for money.