Poll

A Poll to decide if a poll should be taken.

Yes, we should take a poll to see people's opinion on TC.
8 (16.3%)
No, we should not take a poll to see people's opinion on TC.
7 (14.3%)
I never vote in polls.
5 (10.2%)
Maybe we should first take a poll to determine if this poll should be taken.
29 (59.2%)

Total Members Voted: 49

Author Topic: Tent City Lakewood  (Read 67675 times)

Offline Alex Libman

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Re: Tent City Lakewood
« Reply #140 on: November 13, 2013, 12:07:35 AM »
I appreciate everyone's patience.  I will soon begin catching up with this thread - but first...  A very significant misperception has been expressed on this thread, and I must answer it in full.


A real libertarian doesn't make a lifestyle out of charity.


(1)  What is a "libertarian"?

The term "libertarian(ism)" isn't precise.  It etymologically implies "someone who values liberty", but there are competing ideas, some more rational than others, about what actually constitutes "liberty" and for whom.

In the usage of this word on this forum thread, it is practical to make the convenient assumption that we mean the popular contemporary use of "libertarianism" in the United States.  This narrows it down to exclude various simplistic / socialist / pedagogical / libertine / etc uses of that term, but the definition still encompasses a great diversity of thought.

As of yet there's no undisputed definitive "libertarian" ideal (not even within the confines of the USA'n popular usage of this term).  This thought isn't monopolized by any one political party (some indicate this distinction via capitalization).  Some of the most influential libertarian thinkers have called themselves by more specific terms, including Objectivists, Voluntaryists, FreeMarketeers, Pure/"Anarcho-" Capitalists, etc.


(2)  Boundaries of the definition

So "libertarianism" is a diverse and polycentric cloud of ideas, but it does have boundaries.  I would define such boundaries the same way I define the boundaries of what constitutes science - rigorous rational skepticism.

To be a scientist doesn't mean having perfect knowledge of all things, but seeking the Truth on the basis of empiricism and logic.  Likewise, to be a libertarian doesn't mean personifying utopian omnipotence of individualism and liberty, but being utmost skeptical about limitations on individual freedom - in other words to only justify force when it is absolutely essential (ex. in self-defense).

Ideas compete and evolve over time.  Aristotle was a great scientist, perhaps the greatest genius of his millennium whose work is known to us today, even though most of his ideas were utterly quashed by others (ex. Pasteur and Newton, who were in turn proven wrong about many things by others too).  Even more-so in libertarian thought, old statues are oft demolished without sentiment.  In trying to understand libertarian ideas in the modern world, to only study Adam Smith is like flying to the moon with Aristotelian physics; to only study Ayn Rand's fiction is akin to building a nuclear power plant by studying Newton's ventures into alchemy.

From the scientific perspective, some theories have absolute consensus through overwhelming evidence (ex. order of magnitude of the age of the Earth), but on some theories reasonable scientists will still disagree (ex. significance of Anthropogenic Global Warming).  (Popular opinion can lag drastically behind scientific facts, and this gap could even increase in the future.)  Likewise, from the libertarian perspective, it seems that reasonable people, upon engaging in rigorous study of political philosophy, will agree on the most fundamental points - the empirically observable Laws that are perpetually shown to be essential to the growth of civilization (and which have been recognized by civilizations to some degree for thousands of years).  These fundamental points of agreement are variously called Individual Rights, Rational Rights, Natural Rights, Natural Law, Non-Aggression Principle, etc.

Reasonable libertarians still disagree on complicated issues like gradualism, strategic approaches, geopolitics, "intellectual property rights", Parents' Rights, etc.  For many of those topics perhaps there just isn't enough economic evidence to form a fully rational conclusion.  As in science, we must continue to explore those questions, conduct experiments, debate, etc until a logical answer can be found.  And only by the authority of logic can such questions be resolved - this isn't a case of "you can drink pepsi and I can drink tea", but of either you are violating my rights or I am violating yours.  Fortunately we are gradually getting closer to the answers.

Ayn Rand, Barry Goldwater, and many other libertarians were very pro-USA'n in their geopolitics, believing that government force by Uncle Sam is necessary to protect against a much greater aggression of communism.  Milton Friedman was an advocate of certain monetary policies that are based on government force, which he believed were more attainable and a lesser evil than other economic policies which were based on even more government force.  Milton also advocated guaranteed minimum income as an effective gradualist strategy for phasing out the Welfare State.  All this still falls within the definition of libertarianism.  I'd generously say that Ron Paul squeaks by, as he had expressed his actual positions during his Libertarian Party candidacy in 1988, however since then he has pandered a bit to the closed-borders populists to get (re)elected...

On the other hand there are people who most clearly are not libertarians, who uncritically preach authoritarian solutions and deny overwhelming evidence for the benefits of individual freedom.  Tragically most people, even in this relatively economically free country, including most mainstream politicians, fall into this category.  Ronald Reagan pragmatically accepted some free market ideas, but his overall opinions were largely based on nationalism, religion, and conservative dogma.


(3)  Is my philosophy "libertarian"?

I am a rationalist first, and my peculiar philosophy is a consequence of many years of persistent inquiry into various questions, ranging from epistemology to economics to climate science to artificial intelligence to nanotech.  I am different from many libertarians on topics like: gradualism, historical analysis, IP, abortion, tribalism, futurism, contractualism, pro-natalism, Parents' Rights, ethical judgments on homosexuality, etc.  Some libertarians will disagree with me fiercely, but we agree on the main things. 

Again, to be a libertarian is to apply empiricism to the realm of politics / economics / law, and thus to be rigorously skeptical of any claims of legitimate use of force.  As tens of thousands of pages of my past Internet writings will testify, I pass this criteria with flying colors.  I am not an axiomatic NAP-thumper like some, but all my theories have either been: under NAP, in pursuit of an ever-more rational definition of NAP, or to bring current society closer to NAP.

And obviously nothing about voluntary charity constitutes the initiation of force.


(4)  What is my involvement with charity?

Back when my primary interest in life was computer programming / hacking / "big data", I've made good money (with reasonable hope of making a lot more money down the road) and donated to charity.  When my interests changed, I chose to phase out my career to maximize my free time, so that I could spend it on my studies and thoughts.  I still donated money, but mostly to political causes (ex. $1500+ to Ron Paul's campaign, and $100/month to a libertarian podcast).  Aside from that, I've lived very cheaply and ate lots of beans.   ;)

I'm no virgin when it comes to mooching off government, but just for a few months to see how it works, and then I took myself off it completely.  I even avoid going to the public library, etc.  One exception is that I often fill my water jugs at the water fountain at the "public" baseball field at MLK Dr - it would be more efficient if more Tenters would make the effort to do that instead of drinking donated bottled water...  And of course we must all use government monopolies in things like waste management, roads, etc.

I've lived in Tent City since March 1, 2013.  I mostly eat donated day-old pizza, for which supply somewhat exceeds demand, and decline many "luxuries" (like a propane heater, a better tent / platform, a faster laptop, etc) that Minister Steve and other supporters have offered me.  I spend most of my day in the "office" trailer at Tent City, managing its online presence, promoting events, writing letters, communicating with actual and prospective supporters, etc.  (I used to also do more to pick up trash at Tent City, but gave up on that exercise in futility, as it only encourages some bums to litter more - tragedy of the commons...)

It is the overwhelming consensus among Tent City leaders and supporters that I am "pulling my weight" many times over.  So if I have "made a lifestyle out of charity", it is more-so as a giver than a receiver.

It should be noted, however, that there is nothing immoral about receiving charity, as long as it is voluntary.  Much of the world's greatest literature, art, music, and now even software was funded through voluntary patronage and donations.  I've always gladly accepted donations from people who wish to be my patrons, just as I have previously donated to others because I value them and what they do.

The only possible problem with that is if you mislead your patrons about your abilities or intentions, and I've made it a point to be 100% transparent with people about my positions.  For example, I told Minister Steve on Day One that I was a Jewish Atheist, libertarian tax resister, and hold many opinions that are diametrically opposed to his - he didn't have a problem.


(5)  What are my motivations for participating in charity?

My motivations for being at Tent City are multifaceted.  Those who know me will see it as a natural progression of my past efforts at "cheap living", materialistic minimalism, and thoughts about low-cost gulching / agorism.  It is a stepping stone between what I've done in the past and what I'll do in the future.

I know you'd prefer it if I was a productive little slave, perhaps even a millionaire, living in a huge house I don't need, etc - spending every waking moment thinking about how to make more money to pay you in taxes.  But those things don't make me happy - telling the government to eff itself does.  Shoveling corporate code all day limits my intellectual potential - living in Tent City I am free to devote most of time to the development of my mind.

Tent City has been a great educational opportunity for me.  In practical terms, I've observed how you can set up super-cheap structures, an office with electrical appliances, and even a fully functional shower in the woods.  (And this is just scratching the surface - we'd eventually come up with solar / wind energy, much better heating and insulation, groundwater filtering, composting, greenhouse veggies, and, closer to my area of expertise, a censorship-resistant WWAN with preemptive caching and apps, etc, etc, etc.)

And of course Tent City is a great example of how much can be accomplished through cheap living and voluntary charity (in spite of all the government sabotage, of voluntary charity in general, and all the added sabotage specific to Tent City).  In ideological terms, as I've said before - TC is the prototype of the libertarian alternative to the Welfare State!

Perhaps another subconscious reason has been all the times I've been told, on various online message forums, that libertarian claims about voluntary charity are a cop-out; that I'm just a greedy jerk who "got mine" and wants poor people to be starving in the streets.  I've also been told that I'm a privileged white male who doesn't know what it's like to be poor, and therefore my opinions on politics and economics are invalid.  Well, here I am - sharing the shower room with the whole village, eating food that would otherwise be garbage, and shivering in an unheated tent!  This is my way of demonstrating that I am willing to live among the poorest and most dysfunction people in our society, and to help out.

Back in 2006 (before I've decided the Free State Project was too collectivist for me, and long before I ran out of coder money), I wrote:

Quote
Water is not a right, and neither are food, clothing, heat, shelter, Internet access, or friendship, but I call upon everyone to feel responsible when your neighbors (within, say, 20 minute travel distance) or employees go without those things.  Charity, especially the "teach a man to fish" kind of Charity, is essential to Liberty.  Failure of Charity was what gave birth to socialism in the first place, and now to get Liberty back we must prove ourselves worthy of it!

I call upon the Free Staters to fight not only for Liberty, but for voluntary Charity as well; not for the sake of altruism but for the sake of New Hampshire's future.  Reducing its welfare load is an essential step to making it the Free State!
  According to those 2003 numbers, there were 6,321 (0.483%) families and 15,061 (1.15%) individual recipients of welfare in NH, which is pretty low but not low enough.  Many of those people don't need a check every month that traps them in the indignity of dependence and sets a bad example to their children, they need things that the government can never provide - friends to encourage them, help them deal with their personal issues, and help getting and keeping a job that offers an opportunity for education and growth...


In 2011, I wrote (and the rest of that thread is good reading too):

Quote
The cost of shelter for the poor is greatly inflated in the present day by government intervention into every single step of any building's life-cycle, from zoning to labor negotiations to property taxes.  Programs like rent assistance and the religion of equality have destroyed the market for more economical housing, and the welfare state has stifled the potential for much more cost-effective and innovative private charity.  I'm sure Walmart, GE, Toyota, Invista, and other companies could come up with plenty of innovative ideas if only market circumstances would allow.

Let them [the poor] live in capsule hotels, heated outdoor tents, or whatever other solutions can be found by unrestrained scientific quest to optimize efficiency.


Just three months ago, I wrote:

Quote
My ideal would be to see Tent Cities where everyone can pull their own weight working at least part-time, but currently this isn't the case.  [...]  At present, our Tent City relies heavily on a network of local volunteers who donate food, bottled water, and other survival essentials.  [...]  We also accept financial donations (ex. via PayPal and BitCoin), which go to things like [propane].

Voluntary charity is not only far more moral than the Welfare State, but it is also far more efficient, and it averts the danger of centralized power inevitably being misused to tyrannical ends.

Some people help the poor for religious or altruistic reasons, but there are also rational and selfish reasons to do so.  Homelessness and extreme poverty are problems that the free market needs to solve in order to flourish, and people who help solve these problems should get all the recognition and respect they deserve.
  I'll comply with any donor's request to remain anonymous, but I encourage them not to.  We need to build a culture where voluntary philanthropy is valued, and where building a Tent City gets you more respect than driving a Lamborghini - then that will be the death of the Welfare State, and all other Statism along with it!

Cost-effective solutions to poverty often call for ingenious technological solutions.  Like Howard Roark agreeing to architect a housing project for the poor in exchange for nothing but an agreement to retain creative control, because the economic design challenge fascinated him, many competent individuals will find perfectly selfish motivations to voluntarily help the poor.  Rational people will help eliminate poverty - not because they see themselves as "their brothers' keepers", but because they love innovation, efficiency, and freedom!


I hope this removes all erroneous perceptions about libertarianism being somehow incompatible with charity, or of me being a "bad libertarian" for crossing paths with Tent City.

I will try to answer all questions, in order asked, over the  next few days.  If I miss something, please send me a private message (or msg me on Facebook, etc).

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Re: Tent City Lakewood
« Reply #141 on: November 13, 2013, 12:26:39 AM »
What someone will do to live for a cause. You're interesting and probably a little cooky, but i admire your persistence.
But is your long term goal to have allot of such tent city's nation wide?
What is there for the poor to gain? The chance of maybe having a heater?
Seems like it would be better to use your knowledge to help these poor and downtrodden people integrate back into society using real jobs and dignity.

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Re: Tent City Lakewood
« Reply #142 on: November 13, 2013, 08:49:02 AM »
I appreciate everyone's patience.  I will soon begin catching up with this thread - but first...  A very significant misperception has been expressed on this thread, and I must answer it in full.



(1)  What is a "libertarian"?

The term "libertarian(ism)" isn't precise.  It etymologically implies "someone who values liberty", but there are competing ideas, some more rational than others, about what actually constitutes "liberty" and for whom.

In the usage of this word on this forum thread, it is practical to make the convenient assumption that we mean the popular contemporary use of "libertarianism" in the United States.  This narrows it down to exclude various simplistic / socialist / pedagogical / libertine / etc uses of that term, but the definition still encompasses a great diversity of thought.

As of yet there's no undisputed definitive "libertarian" ideal (not even within the confines of the USA'n popular usage of this term).  This thought isn't monopolized by any one political party (some indicate this distinction via capitalization).  Some of the most influential libertarian thinkers have called themselves by more specific terms, including Objectivists, Voluntaryists, FreeMarketeers, Pure/"Anarcho-" Capitalists, etc.


(2)  Boundaries of the definition

So "libertarianism" is a diverse and polycentric cloud of ideas, but it does have boundaries.  I would define such boundaries the same way I define the boundaries of what constitutes science - rigorous rational skepticism.

To be a scientist doesn't mean having perfect knowledge of all things, but seeking the Truth on the basis of empiricism and logic.  Likewise, to be a libertarian doesn't mean personifying utopian omnipotence of individualism and liberty, but being utmost skeptical about limitations on individual freedom - in other words to only justify force when it is absolutely essential (ex. in self-defense).

Ideas compete and evolve over time.  Aristotle was a great scientist, perhaps the greatest genius of his millennium whose work is known to us today, even though most of his ideas were utterly quashed by others (ex. Pasteur and Newton, who were in turn proven wrong about many things by others too).  Even more-so in libertarian thought, old statues are oft demolished without sentiment.  In trying to understand libertarian ideas in the modern world, to only study Adam Smith is like flying to the moon with Aristotelian physics; to only study Ayn Rand's fiction is akin to building a nuclear power plant by studying Newton's ventures into alchemy.

From the scientific perspective, some theories have absolute consensus through overwhelming evidence (ex. order of magnitude of the age of the Earth), but on some theories reasonable scientists will still disagree (ex. significance of Anthropogenic Global Warming).  (Popular opinion can lag drastically behind scientific facts, and this gap could even increase in the future.)  Likewise, from the libertarian perspective, it seems that reasonable people, upon engaging in rigorous study of political philosophy, will agree on the most fundamental points - the empirically observable Laws that are perpetually shown to be essential to the growth of civilization (and which have been recognized by civilizations to some degree for thousands of years).  These fundamental points of agreement are variously called Individual Rights, Rational Rights, Natural Rights, Natural Law, Non-Aggression Principle, etc.

Reasonable libertarians still disagree on complicated issues like gradualism, strategic approaches, geopolitics, "intellectual property rights", Parents' Rights, etc.  For many of those topics perhaps there just isn't enough economic evidence to form a fully rational conclusion.  As in science, we must continue to explore those questions, conduct experiments, debate, etc until a logical answer can be found.  And only by the authority of logic can such questions be resolved - this isn't a case of "you can drink pepsi and I can drink tea", but of either you are violating my rights or I am violating yours.  Fortunately we are gradually getting closer to the answers.

Ayn Rand, Barry Goldwater, and many other libertarians were very pro-USA'n in their geopolitics, believing that government force by Uncle Sam is necessary to protect against a much greater aggression of communism.  Milton Friedman was an advocate of certain monetary policies that are based on government force, which he believed were more attainable and a lesser evil than other economic policies which were based on even more government force.  Milton also advocated guaranteed minimum income as an effective gradualist strategy for phasing out the Welfare State.  All this still falls within the definition of libertarianism.  I'd generously say that Ron Paul squeaks by, as he had expressed his actual positions during his Libertarian Party candidacy in 1988, however since then he has pandered a bit to the closed-borders populists to get (re)elected...

On the other hand there are people who most clearly are not libertarians, who uncritically preach authoritarian solutions and deny overwhelming evidence for the benefits of individual freedom.  Tragically most people, even in this relatively economically free country, including most mainstream politicians, fall into this category.  Ronald Reagan pragmatically accepted some free market ideas, but his overall opinions were largely based on nationalism, religion, and conservative dogma.


(3)  Is my philosophy "libertarian"?

I am a rationalist first, and my peculiar philosophy is a consequence of many years of persistent inquiry into various questions, ranging from epistemology to economics to climate science to artificial intelligence to nanotech.  I am different from many libertarians on topics like: gradualism, historical analysis, IP, abortion, tribalism, futurism, contractualism, pro-natalism, Parents' Rights, ethical judgments on homosexuality, etc.  Some libertarians will disagree with me fiercely, but we agree on the main things. 

Again, to be a libertarian is to apply empiricism to the realm of politics / economics / law, and thus to be rigorously skeptical of any claims of legitimate use of force.  As tens of thousands of pages of my past Internet writings will testify, I pass this criteria with flying colors.  I am not an axiomatic NAP-thumper like some, but all my theories have either been: under NAP, in pursuit of an ever-more rational definition of NAP, or to bring current society closer to NAP.

And obviously nothing about voluntary charity constitutes the initiation of force.


(4)  What is my involvement with charity?

Back when my primary interest in life was computer programming / hacking / "big data", I've made good money (with reasonable hope of making a lot more money down the road) and donated to charity.  When my interests changed, I chose to phase out my career to maximize my free time, so that I could spend it on my studies and thoughts.  I still donated money, but mostly to political causes (ex. $1500+ to Ron Paul's campaign, and $100/month to a libertarian podcast).  Aside from that, I've lived very cheaply and ate lots of beans.   ;)

I'm no virgin when it comes to mooching off government, but just for a few months to see how it works, and then I took myself off it completely.  I even avoid going to the public library, etc.  One exception is that I often fill my water jugs at the water fountain at the "public" baseball field at MLK Dr - it would be more efficient if more Tenters would make the effort to do that instead of drinking donated bottled water...  And of course we must all use government monopolies in things like waste management, roads, etc.

I've lived in Tent City since March 1, 2013.  I mostly eat donated day-old pizza, for which supply somewhat exceeds demand, and decline many "luxuries" (like a propane heater, a better tent / platform, a faster laptop, etc) that Minister Steve and other supporters have offered me.  I spend most of my day in the "office" trailer at Tent City, managing its online presence, promoting events, writing letters, communicating with actual and prospective supporters, etc.  (I used to also do more to pick up trash at Tent City, but gave up on that exercise in futility, as it only encourages some bums to litter more - tragedy of the commons...)

It is the overwhelming consensus among Tent City leaders and supporters that I am "pulling my weight" many times over.  So if I have "made a lifestyle out of charity", it is more-so as a giver than a receiver.

It should be noted, however, that there is nothing immoral about receiving charity, as long as it is voluntary.  Much of the world's greatest literature, art, music, and now even software was funded through voluntary patronage and donations.  I've always gladly accepted donations from people who wish to be my patrons, just as I have previously donated to others because I value them and what they do.

The only possible problem with that is if you mislead your patrons about your abilities or intentions, and I've made it a point to be 100% transparent with people about my positions.  For example, I told Minister Steve on Day One that I was a Jewish Atheist, libertarian tax resister, and hold many opinions that are diametrically opposed to his - he didn't have a problem.


(5)  What are my motivations for participating in charity?

My motivations for being at Tent City are multifaceted.  Those who know me will see it as a natural progression of my past efforts at "cheap living", materialistic minimalism, and thoughts about low-cost gulching / agorism.  It is a stepping stone between what I've done in the past and what I'll do in the future.

I know you'd prefer it if I was a productive little slave, perhaps even a millionaire, living in a huge house I don't need, etc - spending every waking moment thinking about how to make more money to pay you in taxes.  But those things don't make me happy - telling the government to eff itself does.  Shoveling corporate code all day limits my intellectual potential - living in Tent City I am free to devote most of time to the development of my mind.

Tent City has been a great educational opportunity for me.  In practical terms, I've observed how you can set up super-cheap structures, an office with electrical appliances, and even a fully functional shower in the woods.  (And this is just scratching the surface - we'd eventually come up with solar / wind energy, much better heating and insulation, groundwater filtering, composting, greenhouse veggies, and, closer to my area of expertise, a censorship-resistant WWAN with preemptive caching and apps, etc, etc, etc.)

And of course Tent City is a great example of how much can be accomplished through cheap living and voluntary charity (in spite of all the government sabotage, of voluntary charity in general, and all the added sabotage specific to Tent City).  In ideological terms, as I've said before - TC is the prototype of the libertarian alternative to the Welfare State!

Perhaps another subconscious reason has been all the times I've been told, on various online message forums, that libertarian claims about voluntary charity are a cop-out; that I'm just a greedy jerk who "got mine" and wants poor people to be starving in the streets.  I've also been told that I'm a privileged white male who doesn't know what it's like to be poor, and therefore my opinions on politics and economics are invalid.  Well, here I am - sharing the shower room with the whole village, eating food that would otherwise be garbage, and shivering in an unheated tent!  This is my way of demonstrating that I am willing to live among the poorest and most dysfunction people in our society, and to help out.

Back in 2006 (before I've decided the Free State Project was too collectivist for me, and long before I ran out of coder money), I wrote:


In 2011, I wrote (and the rest of that thread is good reading too):


Just three months ago, I wrote:


I hope this removes all erroneous perceptions about libertarianism being somehow incompatible with charity, or of me being a "bad libertarian" for crossing paths with Tent City.

I will try to answer all questions, in order asked, over the  next few days.  If I miss something, please send me a private message (or msg me on Facebook, etc).
lol
Love me or hate me. I still love you.

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Re: Tent City Lakewood
« Reply #143 on: November 13, 2013, 09:49:09 AM »

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Re: Tent City Lakewood
« Reply #144 on: November 13, 2013, 10:13:15 AM »
Anyone actually read through that spam post?


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Re: Tent City Lakewood
« Reply #145 on: November 13, 2013, 12:03:53 PM »
Every time you act like anti-intellectual idiots, this thread gets pushed down lower on my to-do list...

Some of you remind me of the beer hall Nazis of the 1920s...  collectivist, arrogant, prone to wild accusations, beyond the reach of reason, and ultimately capable of nothing but violence...

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Re: Tent City Lakewood
« Reply #146 on: November 13, 2013, 12:15:31 PM »
Every time you act like anti-intellectual idiots, this thread gets pushed down lower on my to-do list...

Pleeeeeease no!
Love me or hate me. I still love you.

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Re: Tent City Lakewood
« Reply #147 on: November 13, 2013, 12:20:01 PM »
Every time you act like anti-intellectual idiots, this thread gets pushed down lower on my to-do list...
Alex you're threatening nobody because i hate to break it to you but i don't think many people will miss you around here,

i actually also admire your persistence & enjoy this thread

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Re: Tent City Lakewood
« Reply #148 on: November 13, 2013, 01:05:26 PM »
Very interesting post Alex. I have refrained from posting here thus far because I don't have much knowledge nor connection to either side of this debate. You're obviously an educated individual, I would like to see more of your ideas for actually helping homeless individuals become more capable members of society at large. I'm also curious to know how many homeless people are actually (and I apologize in advance for this crass term) "salvageable". What I mean by that is not that they are garbage or should not be helped through donations etc. but how many if given better circumstances and opportunity would be capable of both the mental and physical capacity to be self-sufficient.

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Re: Tent City Lakewood
« Reply #149 on: November 13, 2013, 01:09:20 PM »
Every time you act like anti-intellectual idiots, this thread gets pushed down lower on my to-do list...

Some of you remind me of the beer hall Nazis of the 1920s...  collectivist, arrogant, prone to wild accusations, beyond the reach of reason, and ultimately capable of nothing but violence...

I do not understand one word of what you wrote just now. No one is threatening with violence or making wild accusations. We just cant figure out why you would make an entire post of your side of the story when we have very valid questions that were asked. We know that you believe that its your right to promote doing nothing all day and wait for the rich to come take care of you all. I personally think you are doing a HUGE disservice to these people. Let them leave and get jobs, food, and normal shelter. Stop holding them hostage to promote your agenda.

Offline Super Speed

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Re: Tent City Lakewood
« Reply #150 on: November 13, 2013, 01:13:08 PM »
I do not understand one word of what you wrote just now. No one is threatening with violence or making wild accusations. We just cant figure out why you would make an entire post of your side of the story when we have very valid questions that were asked. We know that you believe that its your right to promote doing nothing all day and wait for the rich to come take care of you all. I personally think you are doing a HUGE disservice to these people. Let them leave and get jobs, food, and normal shelter. Stop holding them hostage to promote your agenda.
+1000


Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: Tent City Lakewood
« Reply #151 on: November 13, 2013, 01:13:36 PM »
This is the second time Alex has referred to Nazis in the context of bashing and attacking the Jewish community of Lakewood.

#justkeepingcount

Offline Super Speed

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Re: Tent City Lakewood
« Reply #152 on: November 13, 2013, 01:14:59 PM »
This is the second time Alex has referred to Nazis in the context of bashing and attacking the Jewish community of Lakewood.

#justkeepingcount
He's a self hater...

Offline smee123

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Re: Tent City Lakewood
« Reply #153 on: November 13, 2013, 02:21:50 PM »
In conclusion: you are NOT helping anyone. And don't plan on it. You have a fantasy of creating a lawless camp made up of individuals who believe in what you preach, write and advocate. And the people in your camp now, are happy to be a part of something even though they probably have no idea what you're talking about. Have a nice life and peddle your wares elsewhere my friend. And remember you can always think about what it would take for you to admit that you are not an atheist because it sure sounds like you are over-thinking a whole lot. Iv'e got nothing against you, just don't act like the rest of the members here are nuts for not agreeing with you.

You are clearly not looking for a conversation, only to propagandize you're movement. Which if perhaps you weren't bothering allot of fellow jews in the process people wouldn't mind.

Offline CarlinsGhost

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Re: Re: Lakewood NJ Master Thread
« Reply #154 on: November 13, 2013, 02:49:44 PM »
WOW!!  So simple Mr Alex. It's like, what's wrong with everyone else around you that doesn't understand the "benefits" of tent city. Who cares that it's a hideout for crooks and criminals. Who cares that they're  polluting the air for all of us law abiding citizens. Who cares that the invaders trespass and urinate on private property, that people paid for with their hard earned money. Who cares to  pay attention to the fact that they chose Lakewood to open their illegal settlement, and not Trenton, Camden or Philly........ Why can't the citizens of Lakewood be heard also.

Alex, your using, yes USING a community of the disenfranchised to wage your one-man war against the government is doing them more of a disservice than you could possibly imagine. And Tent City has made a fatal mistake in allowing one of the most hardcore fringe members of their community to (mis)represent them and their interests.

That being said...OP, when you say "citizens of Lakewood," I do hope you are not referring to a certain special interest group that is misallocating (stealing?) public housing funds from its "host country?" to promote its own agenda. Because to most of us in the surrounding area, it appears they are represented more than sufficiently. Just a suggestion, but if you hate Tent City that much, instead of erecting schools in residential neighborhoods and skirting the law with multiple variances, why don't you pool your resources and build a homeless shelter?

Because if that's not part of the plan amid all this kvetching, then you are little more than elitist, insular blowhards who believe it is their right to openly discriminate against the poor. Either stop wasting time on the internet and be part of the solution, or else keep on being be part of the problem and, pray G-d shows you more mercy than you have shown the people of Tent City.

Offline Baruch

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Re: Tent City Lakewood
« Reply #155 on: November 13, 2013, 02:52:09 PM »
Every time you act like anti-intellectual idiots, this thread gets pushed down lower on my to-do list...

Some of you remind me of the beer hall Nazis of the 1920s...  collectivist, arrogant, prone to wild accusations, beyond the reach of reason, and ultimately capable of nothing but violence...
You made a fool out of yourself with this post.

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: Re: Lakewood NJ Master Thread
« Reply #156 on: November 13, 2013, 03:09:54 PM »

That being said...OP, when you say "citizens of Lakewood," I do hope you are not referring to a certain special interest group that is misallocating (stealing?) public housing funds from its "host country?" to promote its own agenda. Because to most of us in the surrounding area, it appears they are represented more than sufficiently. Just a suggestion, but if you hate Tent City that much, instead of erecting schools in residential neighborhoods and skirting the law with multiple variances, why don't you pool your resources and build a homeless shelter?

Because if that's not part of the plan amid all this kvetching, then you are little more than elitist, insular blowhards who believe it is their right to openly discriminate against the poor. Either stop wasting time on the internet and be part of the solution, or else keep on being be part of the problem and, pray G-d shows you more mercy than you have shown the people of Tent City.
You're no better than your savage anti semitic ancestors that beat us to death in our old "Host countries" in Europe. 
Get out, you've been exposed.

Offline efflpetzel

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Re: Re: Lakewood NJ Master Thread
« Reply #157 on: November 13, 2013, 08:15:27 PM »
You're no better than your savage anti semitic ancestors that beat us to death in our old "Host countries" in Europe. 
Get out, you've been exposed.
i just love how people jump on the anti-semitic bandwagon.
i'm all for exposing anti-semites when that is the case,
this isn't

Offline kracked dude

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Re: Tent City Lakewood
« Reply #158 on: November 21, 2013, 09:48:46 PM »
@lakewoodscoop: Township Sets Aside $250,000 to Help Tent City Residents http://t.co/kvCUftW70U

m.twitter.com/lakewoodscoop

Offline smee123

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Re: Tent City Lakewood
« Reply #159 on: November 21, 2013, 11:15:01 PM »
@lakewoodscoop: Township Sets Aside $250,000 to Help Tent City Residents http://t.co/kvCUftW70U

m.twitter.com/lakewoodscoop
"to assist the process of placing the homeless"
They don't want help relocating...