Tent City Lakewood

[churnbabychurn]

Change the thread name to "Alex Libman's philosophies".

[smee123]

Change the thread name to "Alex Libman's ******** philosophies".

FIFY

[Alex Libman]

Over the past several months, the police prevented many people from entering Tent City, even though they had no better place to go...

This morning, ***NEWSFLASH*** in a strange reversal, the police had dropped off two young people from NYC at our Tent City...



We must be doing something right...   

Visible on the bus behind the police officer are some of the awesome Tent City bumper stickers we've got - FREE for Tent City supporters while supplies last.  Stop by and pick yours up today!   

[Drago]

First off, this is a very interesting thread. As s/o who leans libertarian, I've enjoyed reading Alex's arguments even if I don't agree with them all.

One question that I haven't seen discussed in health care (and to a much lesser extent, pension savings.) I'd assume that members of TC would use the local health services if the need exists, and this would constitute a form of welfare as they don't pay into it. Or do private doctors volunteer their time to help out?

My own preference is for local charity groups (church, community, etc) to band together to provide what's needed to help these people get onto their feet, and this would often include mental health counseling for those that need it. This is something that may not be provided in the TC enviroment, although Alex can correct me if I'm wrong.

EDIT: I began looking at your posts at the Free State Project, and you wrote that "Government intervention is the root cause of homelessness,". I need to disagree with that, as I believe that it's mental illness which is the chief cause for long-term (not short-term) homelessness.

But I def agree when you wrote afterwards that "and the "welfare state" is a racket that does far more harm than good.". 

Bump

And I for one am happy you've returned Alex.

[Baruch]

Over the past several months, the police prevented many people from entering Tent City, even though they had no better place to go...

This morning, ***NEWSFLASH*** in a strange reversal, the police had dropped off two young people from NYC at our Tent City...



We must be doing something right...   

Visible on the bus behind the police officer are some of the awesome Tent City bumper stickers we've got - FREE for Tent City supporters while supplies last.  Stop by and pick yours up today!   

What's today's death toll in Tent City?

[MarkS]

Alex,

You have got to stop  posting rediculous unnecessary links throughout your posts.

[CountValentine]

How are they coping in this weather?

[mow]

How are they coping in this weather?

http://matzav.com/lakewood-township-helps-the-homeless-and-the-cold-throughout-the-night

[CountValentine]

http://matzav.com/lakewood-township-helps-the-homeless-and-the-cold-throughout-the-night

Glad to see the churches are opening their doors.

[churnbabychurn]

http://www.thelakewoodscoop.com/news/2014/01/lpd-arrests-2-men-responsible-for-dozens-of-burglaries-one-suspect-is-tent-city-resident.html


Shocking

[shmuelb]

http://www.thelakewoodscoop.com/news/2014/01/lpd-arrests-2-men-responsible-for-dozens-of-burglaries-one-suspect-is-tent-city-resident.html
Shocking

What is shocking?  (I refer to the link title, not the article) I assume Alex would say that it is better for the state if a thief is living in a freezing tent than getting housing. Can a thief live in a tent? Is that the shocking part? Can it be that people in TC do not have money to spend? Some people steal because they have no money, others steal even if they have lots of money. Check out Dubno Magid in beginning of Vayigash, I think third shtickel.

[Alex Libman]

I've put this forum in the penalty box for a while, because the anti-intellectualism and irrationality of some people here was making me sick...  But duty calls...

Replying to posts from the parent thread...

Do they think that tent city is nicer ?

Of course. It's filled with such nice law abiding citizens.

No, it is filled with homeless people.  Should we bulldoze the hospitals because they are filled with sick people?

For more than ten years, Steve Brigham of Lakewood Outreach was visiting over a DOZEN different tent cities in and just around Lakewood, to bring them propane and other survival essentials.  He was also helping homeless people living in the streets, sleeping in alleyways and under bridges, etc.

Then things centralized on the Cedar Bridge Ave / S Clover St location, which was a good thing - safety and efficiency in numbers.  Quality of life, medical safety, and fire safety improved.  Relations with the police improved (for a time, before the deliberate campaign of harassment started).  The location was perfect - out of the way, but with easy access to social services as well as the Lakewood Industrial Park, where many of our residents work.  It was good for everybody.

The Township gov't could have cooperated with us, removed the stigma of illegality hindering our fundraising, helped us evict bad people instead of deliberately sabotaging us, etc.  This could have resulted in safe smokeless heating during the winter, more volunteers helping people clean up and rejoin the workforce, etc.  Compared to placing people in motels, Tent City has been saving the taxpayers millions of dollars a year!

Instead, the Lakewood politicians wasted millions of our taxpayer money to sabotage, shrink, and eventually demolish our Tent City.  We're down from 122 residents a year ago to about 35 now.  Lots of people who want to be here are turned away...

So we're returning to the bad old days of having lots of small chaotic Tent Cities popping up all over the place, with no shower, no portajohns, no garbage pickup, no safe easy access for volunteers, no fire extinguishers, no chickens for tick control, no stove / fireplace safety oversight, no one to try to kick out the drug-dealers, etc, etc, etc.

This is bad for everybody - the poor and the taxpayers too.

http://tentcitynj.org/ Didn't know they have a whole website and "Organization"...

Everybody has one these days.

And we're the third most Facebook-LIKE'ed Lakewood organization after the Claws and the Poop.   

Is my trash donation tax deductible ?

Donations are tax deductible.

People who dump trash at Tent City without our permission will be reported to the police and fined.


----


Gotta put on a portajohn-cleaning bio-hazard suit to catch up with all the BS earlier in this thread...   

[Drago]

I for one am excited about having continuing discourse on this subject.

[AnonymousUser]

No, it is filled with homeless people.  Should we bulldoze the hospitals because they are filled with sick people?

Are you saying that's a contradiction to what I said?

[efflpetzel]

I've put this forum in the penalty box for a while, because the anti-intellectualism and irrationality of some people here was making me sick...  But duty calls...

Replying to posts from the parent thread...


Of course. It's filled with such nice law abiding citizens.

No, it is filled with homeless people.  Should we bulldoze the hospitals because they are filled with sick people?

For more than ten years, Steve Brigham of Lakewood Outreach was visiting over a DOZEN different tent cities in and just around Lakewood, to bring them propane and other survival essentials.  He was also helping homeless people living in the streets, sleeping in alleyways and under bridges, etc.

Then things centralized on the Cedar Bridge Ave / S Clover St location, which was a good thing - safety and efficiency in numbers.  Quality of life, medical safety, and fire safety improved.  Relations with the police improved (for a time, before the deliberate campaign of harassment started).  The location was perfect - out of the way, but with easy access to social services as well as the Lakewood Industrial Park, where many of our residents work.  It was good for everybody.

The Township gov't could have cooperated with us, removed the stigma of illegality hindering our fundraising, helped us evict bad people instead of deliberately sabotaging us, etc.  This could have resulted in safe smokeless heating during the winter, more volunteers helping people clean up and rejoin the workforce, etc.  Compared to placing people in motels, Tent City has been saving the taxpayers millions of dollars a year!

Instead, the Lakewood politicians wasted millions of our taxpayer money to sabotage, shrink, and eventually demolish our Tent City.  We're down from 122 residents a year ago to about 35 now.  Lots of people who want to be here are turned away...

So we're returning to the bad old days of having lots of small chaotic Tent Cities popping up all over the place, with no shower, no portajohns, no garbage pickup, no safe easy access for volunteers, no fire extinguishers, no chickens for tick control, no stove / fireplace safety oversight, no one to try to kick out the drug-dealers, etc, etc, etc.

This is bad for everybody - the poor and the taxpayers too.


Everybody has one these days.

And we're the third most Facebook-LIKE'ed Lakewood organization after the Claws and the Poop.   


Donations are tax deductible.

People who dump trash at Tent City without our permission will be reported to the police and fined.


----


Gotta put on a portajohn-cleaning bio-hazard suit to catch up with all the BS earlier in this thread...   

oh man, someone woke up from the dead........

[Baruch]

@Alex, The death rate in Tent city was extremely high, a few people a year. You are partially responsible for those deaths.

[aygart]

@Alex, The death rate in Tent city was extremely high, a few people a year. You are partially responsible for those deaths.

-1. A sick person is sick even if not in tent city

[DH Data Recovery]

Don't really know too much about this but from what I understand this is very simple. Tent City may be amazing for many ppl but it still doesn't mean you want it in your neighborhood. If I were to open a drug rehab facility or halfway house in your immediate vicinity even if it help hundreds of people it still comes with certain negative factors and you wouldn't want it in your area.

[Baruch]

-1. A sick person is sick even if not in tent city

1 guy got burnt to death. 1 guy froze to death. 1 guy got shot to death.
Please don't comment on issues that you are clueless about.
Thank you.

[Alex Libman]

oh man, someone woke up from the dead........

Keep being stupid, and this forum will again be ranked as unworthy of my time.  I'm catching up on CS by taking some MIT OpenCourseWare courses - much more interesting than having to repeatedly debunk the endless logical fallacies of those who libel the good people who support Tent City...

@Alex, The death rate in Tent city was extremely high, a few people a year. You are partially responsible for those deaths.

Yes, we've had 4 deaths during the past year, out of a population of up to 120 homeless people.  That is tragic, but everything that Tent City has done has lowered the risk factors for mortality.  Do you honestly think people would have lived longer if they were sleeping in the woods alone, without heat, without fire safety oversight, without portajohns and shower, without neighbors looking out for each other, etc, etc, etc...

By your own logic, people who criticize Tent City instead of helping the homeless are responsible for the deaths of homeless people outside Tent City!

Don't really know too much about this but from what I understand this is very simple. Tent City may be amazing for many ppl but it still doesn't mean you want it in your neighborhood. If I were to open a drug rehab facility or halfway house in your immediate vicinity even if it help hundreds of people it still comes with certain negative factors and you wouldn't want it in your area.

That is understandable.

If the government had cooperated with us then the effect on Tent City's nearest neighbors would have been less negative.  (And the negativeness are often greatly exaggerated.)  But you don't get to control what happens outside of your property, who your neighbors are.

If you move next to a neglected unused piece of "public land", you should now know there's a chance of a tent city getting set up there.  Tragedy of the commons...

1 guy got burnt to death. 1 guy froze to death. 1 guy got shot to death.
Please don't comment on issues that you are clueless about.
Thank you.

Clearly you are the one who is clueless...  Four people died in the past year:

• Slawomir Szustakowski died in October.  He was hit by a car several days earlier, and possibly suffered a concussion that contributed to his death.  He refused medical treatment after the accident.

• Mario Guerra was found dead outside his camper in November.  Alcohol was a major factor in his death.

• My Dyn died in a horrible fire in March.  Alcohol was likely a factor in the accident.

• Doug Hardman died from the alcohol-lithium combination in April.  It may have been a suicide.

No one was shot or died from violence.  The only shooting in Tent City's history was when the police shot a non-aggressive dog...

Now do your homework and compare these to the death rates of homeless people living outdoors without a Tent City.  Note that it's been an unusually cold winter...