Poll

A Poll to decide if a poll should be taken.

Yes, we should take a poll to see people's opinion on TC.
8 (16.3%)
No, we should not take a poll to see people's opinion on TC.
7 (14.3%)
I never vote in polls.
5 (10.2%)
Maybe we should first take a poll to determine if this poll should be taken.
29 (59.2%)

Total Members Voted: 49

Author Topic: Tent City Lakewood  (Read 67575 times)

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: Tent City Lakewood
« Reply #240 on: June 01, 2014, 03:12:39 PM »
The last words of all narcissistic monologues end with these words - "I am armed only with the pursuit of Truth".
no use wasting time engaging with him anymore, he's history!
Ten city is history! Homelessness is on the decline! yaaay!

Now they will build more houses and hopefully alleviate the rental crisis

Offline Alex Libman

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Re: Tent City Lakewood
« Reply #241 on: June 01, 2014, 03:26:46 PM »
This reply is sponsored by...

Lisp programming language!  All good programmers should know Lisp.  And by this essay written by the Lisp guru Paul Graham, titled  How To Disagree...




So i hit a soft spot with you  ;D ;D ;D ;D

No.  You've hit a stupid spot.   ;)

Re-read everything I've already written to learn more.

Offline EJB

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Re: Tent City Lakewood
« Reply #242 on: June 01, 2014, 03:39:42 PM »


Rationalist Philosophy and the Philosophy of Law are the foundation upon which my subsequent arguments rest.  Without understanding these concepts, one might think the Homestead Principle merely refers to the US Homestead Acts - a fallacy you've just repeated anyway.  It is a much broader concept by which natural resources without a legitimate owner -- whether pieces of land, sea, or someday other planets and solar systems -- originally enter into the human  economy..)

Read my post again.  I never said the Homestead principle merely refers to the US Homestead Acts. I actually said the opposite. The closest the US came to acknowledging this principle didn't even come close.

Offline smee123

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Re: Tent City Lakewood
« Reply #243 on: June 01, 2014, 03:42:49 PM »
No.  You've hit a stupid spot.   ;)

Re-read everything I've already written to learn more.
Read this:
What someone will do to live for a cause. You're interesting and probably a little cooky, but i admire your persistence.
But is your long term goal to have allot of such tent city's nation wide?
What is there for the poor to gain? The chance of maybe having a heater?
Seems like it would be better to use your knowledge to help these poor and downtrodden people integrate back into society using real jobs and dignity.

In conclusion: you are NOT helping anyone. And don't plan on it. You have a fantasy of creating a lawless camp made up of individuals who believe in what you preach, write and advocate. And the people in your camp now, are happy to be a part of something even though they probably have no idea what you're talking about. Have a nice life and peddle your wares elsewhere my friend. And remember you can always think about what it would take for you to admit that you are not an atheist because it sure sounds like you are over-thinking a whole lot. Iv'e got nothing against you, just don't act like the rest of the members here are nuts for not agreeing with you.

You are clearly not looking for a conversation, only to propagandize you're movement. Which if perhaps you weren't bothering allot of fellow jews in the process people wouldn't mind.

Very sad

You're outlook makes me nauseous.
Compassion is a very important thing and in lakewood there is compassion going on all day and night as is there in every corner of the world.
DON'T HIDE BEHIND A CAUSE and do a disservice to the genuinely needy by convincing them not to get help from the government, granted they (goverment)are not perfect. They never are, but sheesh!!!
You could SAVE LIVES by letting people get help instead of preaching your liberalism (which no one is denying) how the world is going to hell and tent city's are a necessity.
That's bull and you know it!
The illegal immigrants, many with no jobs live very comfortable with shelter and food!
I like camping too but WHAT THE HELL DO YOU THINK YOU ARE DOING?!?!?!?!

Get a job alex, you have great writing skills and can advocate for the homeless with your warm and accepting yet stubborn personality.

I HATE that  FOUR LIVES were lost in the woods!

Feel free to disagree, but please stop quoting  ;)
Good Night/Morning.....

I do feel bad for them.
I wonder if they will just end up in a different tent city.
There are plenty of woods out there.

Blah, blah blah
I hate your philosophy, not tent city.
Get it done legally and safe and stop endangering people.

+1
And all those who voted did so thinking they were helping the homeless when in fact they were stopping the homeless from getting help.

So i hit a soft spot with you  ;D ;D ;D ;D
It aint your home buster. You were illegally squatting on public land.
And you were putting peoples lives in danger and professing to help them all the while.
Community is a great thing and i hope you create it in a safe indoors environment

And..... HOW WERE YOU BEING INDEPENDENT BY RELYING ON CONTRIBUTIONS AND DONATIONS OF BASIC LIVING NECESSITIES!!!!!!!

Your logic amazes me.
What are your plans now?
Where are all the unfortunate people of tent city now?
 

There isn't a human soul out there that doesn't feel bad and want to help the homeless.
There are times when they choose to be in their situation, sometimes they are mentally ill and only get help when they get sick and are put in an adult home.
What i'm saying is a fact.
This winter there were people brought into ERs with frost bite, that's how sick they are-not to seek help way before that.
I hope this tent city episode helps the way politicians and the government treat them and help them.
At the end of the day, they are adults who until they are deemed a danger to them selves or whatever can do what they like as long as it's not against the law.
May god have mercy on them  :(
Hey! i learnt how to quote myself!

Bye bye. You're a loony.  8)
As Kevin O'Leary says, "You're dead to me".
« Last Edit: June 01, 2014, 06:24:27 PM by smee123 »

Offline Alex Libman

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Re: Tent City Lakewood
« Reply #244 on: June 01, 2014, 05:16:42 PM »
It aint your home buster. You were illegally squatting on public land.

Contradiction of my claims without addressing any of the arguments I've made.


And you were putting peoples lives in danger and professing to help them all the while.

More childish unsubstantiated contradiction...


Community is a great thing and i hope you create it in a safe indoors environment

Unfunded mandate.

Housing 100+ homeless people in brick-and-mortar building(s), with as much personal liberty as in Tent City, would cost several million dollars just for start-up costs.  If you have that kind of money to spend, you can mail the check to "PO Box 326; Lakewood, NJ 08701" (or a different organization of your choice).  But by guaranteeing every homeless person free rent, you are taking away people's incentives to work and improve their lives.

Well-organized Tent Cities (which are not sabotaged by government like ours was) are a much more fiscally realistic and effective solution to homelessness.  Some states,  like Texas, are already starting to do the right thing - one of many reasons their economy is so strong.


And..... HOW WERE YOU BEING INDEPENDENT BY RELYING ON CONTRIBUTIONS AND DONATIONS OF BASIC LIVING NECESSITIES!!!!!!!

I don't "rely", I trade.  I manage Tent City's online presence (not to be confused with my personal expression, like on this thread), help with correspondence, etc.  In exchange, I get to consume some donations.  Everyone agrees that Tent City had a very good deal by having me on board.


Where are all the unfortunate people of tent city now?

The population of Tent City has always had significant turnover.  Hundreds have been through here, and hundreds more will need it in the future.  Some very visible people have been here for years, but most move on after a few months.  Many would-be newcomers who needed a place to stay over the past year were kicked out by the police.  There are plans to kick more people out shortly...

The 122 who were on the May 2013 census are just a part of the picture.  At any time there are 12,000 to 20,000 homeless people in NJ (more accurate counts are closer to the higher number).  If everything was homogeneous, Lakewood's share would be 120-200, but there are many economic reasons for homelessness in Lakewood to be above state average.

Where are they?  In some cases - sleeping on pavement, in alleyways, under bridges, trespassing on Private Property, sleeping at the library, etc.  All because of people like you, who wanted to bulldoze Tent City, without even at least giving us land somewhere else.  The government is making most of them homeless again.  And, thanks to anti-homeless laws and other Police State prohibitionism, more and more will end up in prison, mainly for victimless "crimes"...

A lucky few get free motel rooms at ridiculous cost to the tax-payers.  TC residents who were there at the right time and jumped through all the hoops were offered "one year free housing" in crony motel rooms, or a one-time $3500 payout to GTFO.  They are now less accessible to rehabilitation services and volunteers than they were at Tent City, and will most likely soon again be on the streets...

 
There is NOTHING in Atlas Shrugged even remotely similar to tent city other than the bands of former workers roaming around robbing people.

I was not pointing at Atlas Shrugged as having a literal prototype of Tent City, only broader philosophical ideas, although more direct parallels could indeed be drawn.  Fiction must scale down the size of everything to just a few characters.  In the real world, there couldn't be a single centralized one-size-fits-all utopian gulch.  Seasteading is the real-world Galt's Gulch for millionaires; Tent City is the real-world Galt's Gulch for bums.  You don't have to be Atlas to "shrug" off statist tyranny, even if all you have on your shoulders is the artificially-multiplied cost of rent!

We are not "robbing" anyone, just the opposite - we are providing an alternative to robbing the taxpayers to pay for "public housing".  Ayn Rand detested "public" ownership and the "welfare" state, we provide the only viable alternative.  She also detested the "war on drugs", which has exacerbated the problems of many at Tent City.

She didn't hate poor people - a pivotal character in Atlas Shrugged is a hobo bumming a free train ride.  Howard Roark designed a low-cost housing complex for free (with agreement of creative control), just because the problem of economization fascinated him.  Ayn Rand had no problem with private voluntary charity and cheap living for the poor, which is what Tent City represents.


In The Virtues of Selfishness there are some slightly relevant essays where she is against zoning laws and calls for taxes to eventually be voluntary with her incentives for them to be paid.

Her later non-fiction work is mainly an explanation what most readers failed to understand and deduct in her fiction, for which she preferred to be remembered.  In all of her books you will find confirmations of my ideas.  Another notable example is her essay on The Property Status of Airwaves.

Her non-fiction is generally better than her fiction, but her fiction is what makes her more unique, accessible, and recognizable among similar libertarian philosophers.


This has nothing to do with receiving services based on the taxes paid by others.

Tent City replaces taxpayer-funded "public housing", which currently wastes millions putting some bums in motels for $1500 a month, while most continue living on the streets (or in prisons, mainly for victimless crimes, and at times for "crimes of desperation", which Tent City also helps to prevent).

Tent City gets no government funding or support (as much as that is possible in today's world).  We have off-the-grid electricity, heat, and water.  A particularly heroic supporter who owns a business at the Lakewood Industrial Park pays for the portajohn services.  For a long time we (via donations) even paid for our own garbage pickup, until the government was finally shamed into picking up our trash - and they've tried to use that as leverage against us many times since...  Roads are of course a government monopoly, and we get free EMS services.  Police services have largely been more harm than good...


All narcissistic monologues end with the words - "I am armed only with the pursuit of Truth". (Or something to that effect).

Name-calling.

I've stated that I am unarmed, and explained why they are afraid to arrest me - it will attract more attention to my writings.


no use wasting time engaging with him anymore, he's history!
Ten city is history! Homelessness is on the decline! yaaay!

Tent Cities are an idea that makes most economic sense, and will continue to grow.  One particular location is getting pogromed.  There will be others.

If you think bulldozing shelters and making people homeless makes homelessness decline, then I hope you live a very long life by sticking your head in an oven.


Now they will build more houses and hopefully alleviate the rental crisis

The free market would have done that decades ago, if the government hadn't stood in its way.  Now, as punishment for government failure, this land has been homesteaded by us.  The sooner they recognize our Rights, the sooner we can sell it for development and use the money to buy land and build better homeless camps somewhere else.

They continue to claim this is "environmentally protected" land that will remain forested, but we all know that's BS.  A crony deal has been in the works for some time...  Some useful things will get built here, too little too late, but the underlying problems of government failure will not be addressed.  My way is better.
« Last Edit: June 01, 2014, 05:25:59 PM by Alex Libman »

Offline Baruch

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Re: Tent City Lakewood
« Reply #245 on: June 01, 2014, 09:47:00 PM »
I've stated that I am unarmed, and explained why they are afraid to arrest me - it will attract more attention to my writings.

Lol, "my writings". There's almost no depth and intelligence in anything you write. You are just repeating the standard liberal/libertarian BS that you hear from your standard 19 year old college kid. Just they all move on and have lives and careers, and laugh at their youthful small mindedness. You - sadly have no life and career, thus you have to create some sense of self worth by espousing brainless lala land ideologies.

No one is scared of anyone reading your "writings". Earth to Alex Libman - "you have very average intelligence".

Online aygart

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Re: Tent City Lakewood
« Reply #246 on: June 01, 2014, 11:01:08 PM »
Half the world has below average intelligence......
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline dans fan

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Re: Tent City Lakewood
« Reply #247 on: June 02, 2014, 01:25:00 PM »
Half the world has below average intelligence......
thats incorrect

Online aygart

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Re: Tent City Lakewood
« Reply #248 on: June 02, 2014, 01:34:59 PM »
thats incorrect
that depends if the population its an odd or even number and which method of averaging you use.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline Baruch

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Re: Tent City Lakewood
« Reply #249 on: June 02, 2014, 03:48:17 PM »
Half the world has below average intelligence......
If there are a hundred donuts split between 10 people, 8 have 12 donuts, and 2 have 2 donuts, the avg is 10 donuts per person, but only 2 people have below average donuts.

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Re: Tent City Lakewood
« Reply #250 on: June 02, 2014, 04:04:35 PM »
If there are a hundred donuts split between 10 people, 8 have 12 donuts, and 2 have 2 donuts, the avg is 10 donuts per person, but only 2 people have below average donuts.


that depends if the population its an odd or even number and which method of averaging you use.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline Baruch

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Re: Tent City Lakewood
« Reply #251 on: June 02, 2014, 04:33:04 PM »
that depends if the population its an odd or even number and which method of averaging you use.
this sentence is unreadable. Please rewrite.

Offline AI-TRAVEL

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Re: Tent City Lakewood
« Reply #252 on: June 02, 2014, 04:48:03 PM »
Hey libman, let me tell you a little secret. We don't mind "wasting" our tax money to get you and the rest of tent city out of here! I am so happy that's what it's being used for. And all this garbage how it's not detrimental to my neighborhood, it's a load of bull! I'm breathing your bonfires or whatever is going on there a whole winter. Please pack your crap up and move out!

Offline skyguy918

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Re: Tent City Lakewood
« Reply #253 on: June 03, 2014, 12:28:34 AM »
this sentence is unreadable. Please rewrite.
He means that average can refer to many different values, including arithmetic mean, geometric mean, median, mode, and others.

Offline Alex Libman

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Re: Tent City Lakewood
« Reply #254 on: June 03, 2014, 04:19:37 PM »
This reply is brought to you by...

Monday's Tent City Photo Album - Bulldozer Bullies, Police Harassment, and the Rally Against Injustice At Tent City:


Please join us at Tent City (or by the intersection of Cedar Bridge Ave and S Clover St in Lakewood) any time you can this week with signs for a Rally Against Injustice At Tent City!

We are protesting unconstitutional and inhumane anti-homeless laws, government waste and corruption, and the bulldozing of a much-needed charitable institution!

Bring a token donation (ideally bottled water) in case the police question you, as it has been legally established that supporters are NOT trespassing when they bring donations to Tent City.

Please make and bring your own protest signs. Try to have a camera to take photos and videos of the events. If you are really brave, bring a tent.


You are just repeating the standard liberal/libertarian BS that you hear from your standard 19 year old college kid.

Then it should be pretty easy for you to provide an example of someone else saying what I've allegedly "repeated".  Good luck with that.


Earth to Alex Libman - "you have very average intelligence".

Countless intelligence tests (and my software development services billing rate before I became a tax resister) prove otherwise.

This forum needs an ignore feature...

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: Tent City Lakewood
« Reply #255 on: June 03, 2014, 04:54:16 PM »
Lol

Offline Super Speed

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Re: Tent City Lakewood
« Reply #256 on: June 03, 2014, 05:07:53 PM »
ALOL

Offline DH Data Recovery

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Re: Tent City Lakewood
« Reply #257 on: June 03, 2014, 05:19:29 PM »


This forum needs an ignore feature...

Pretty sure that would work against you...

Offline Alex Libman

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Re: Tent City Lakewood
« Reply #258 on: June 04, 2014, 11:54:04 AM »
This reply is brought to you by...

Tuesday's Tent City Photo Album - Bulldozer Bullies, Police Harassment, and the Rally Against Injustice At Tent City:




Pretty sure that would work against you...

Being able to ignore idiots works in my favor.

Idiots being able to ignore me, and thus not polluting this thread, also works in my favor.

Offline Baruch

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Re: Tent City Lakewood
« Reply #259 on: June 06, 2014, 11:20:09 AM »



Countless intelligence tests (and my software development services billing rate before I became a tax resister) prove otherwise.

This forum needs an ignore feature...
I read your "writings". They are extremely shallow and empty. I've heard liberals and libertarians who were smart (Ron Paul, Bill Clinton) I disagree with a lot of what they say, but I enjoy the intelligence with which they speak. You, are an extremely boring , non-enlightening, teenage/immature writer. Your "writings" are what I'd expect from a High School newspaper. Earth to Libman - no one is impressed with you - no one. Go stock some shelves in a grocery store, maybe that's where your talents lie?