Poll

Do/Would you Lease or Buy?

Only Lease.
71 (21.9%)
Only Buy.
91 (28.1%)
I judge both options and usually lease.
64 (19.8%)
I judge both options and usually buy.
74 (22.8%)
I don't have a car.
24 (7.4%)

Total Members Voted: 324

Author Topic: Car Lease v. Buying  (Read 171459 times)

Offline Ergel

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jun 2010
  • Posts: 13070
  • Total likes: 905
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 3
    • View Profile
Re: Car Lease v. Buying
« Reply #300 on: July 16, 2014, 04:24:32 PM »
The argument against leasing isn't necessarily to buy new. You can buy a 1-2 year old car for much better value than brand new.
I bought a car that was 6 months old with 6K miles for $6,500 off the price of a new car.
IME if you know how to negotiate a new car, the spread between a lightly used and new car will not be great enough to warrant buying the used
Life isn't about checking the boxes. Nobody cares.

Offline lunatic

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: May 2009
  • Posts: 4459
  • Total likes: 29
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 8
    • View Profile
Re: Car Lease v. Buying
« Reply #301 on: July 16, 2014, 04:41:06 PM »
AFAIK, if you buy new with the intention of selling every 3-4 years, it's actually cheaper to lease.

Let's run some numbers here:

Assuming you got the LE, you paid around $33k after taxes. In three years, assuming you used 15k miles and kept the car in good mechanical condition, your trade-in value will be approximately $18,500. That's approximately $5,000/yr.

Currently, the 2014 Sienna LE can be leased for $315/month, which is $3780/yr. Add approx $800 bank fee + $400 disposition fee (assuming you are not leasing another Toyota), it would be $3813 per year.

Long story short, if you are not keeping the vehicle for at least five years, you are better off leasing.
15k miles in 3 years?

Offline Saver2000

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Apr 2011
  • Posts: 7678
  • Total likes: 47
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
Re: Car Lease v. Buying
« Reply #302 on: July 16, 2014, 04:43:26 PM »
IME if you know how to negotiate a new car, the spread between a lightly used and new car will not be great enough to warrant buying the used
Can't argue with your experience,  but generally that's not the case.

Offline Saver2000

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Apr 2011
  • Posts: 7678
  • Total likes: 47
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
Re: Car Lease v. Buying
« Reply #303 on: July 16, 2014, 04:48:16 PM »
The argument against leasing isn't necessarily to buy new. You can buy a 1-2 year old car for much better value than brand new.
+100

Offline Saver2000

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Apr 2011
  • Posts: 7678
  • Total likes: 47
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
Re: Car Lease v. Buying
« Reply #304 on: July 16, 2014, 04:50:00 PM »
AFAIK, if you buy new with the intention of selling every 3-4 years, it's actually cheaper to lease.

Let's run some numbers here:

Assuming you got the LE, you paid around $33k after taxes. In three years, assuming you used 15k miles and kept the car in good mechanical condition, your trade-in value will be approximately $18,500. That's approximately $5,000/yr.

Currently, the 2014 Sienna LE can be leased for $315/month, which is $3780/yr. Add approx $800 bank fee + $400 disposition fee (assuming you are not leasing another Toyota), it would be $3813 per year.

Long story short, if you are not keeping the vehicle for at least five years, you are better off leasing.
I have a better scenario.

Why not say you used 25k miles a year.. . . Besides that the base numbers change,  you'll have to calculate overage miles on the lease.


Offline Ergel

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jun 2010
  • Posts: 13070
  • Total likes: 905
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 3
    • View Profile
Re: Car Lease v. Buying
« Reply #305 on: July 16, 2014, 05:20:29 PM »
Can't argue with your experience,  but generally that's not the case.
Can you give me an example of the price comparisons on your experience
Life isn't about checking the boxes. Nobody cares.

Offline cozmohoot

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Jan 2012
  • Posts: 4440
  • Total likes: 95
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 5
    • View Profile
  • Location: NY
Re: Car Lease v. Buying
« Reply #306 on: July 16, 2014, 06:57:38 PM »
Man you guys love to darshan

Offline WhyAich

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Jun 2011
  • Posts: 2594
  • Total likes: 2
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 6
    • View Profile
Re: Car Lease v. Buying
« Reply #307 on: July 17, 2014, 01:34:04 AM »
maybe this will help you: http://www.cars.com/ford/fiesta/2014/costofownership

it does, it includes fuel, insurance, and financing, taexes etc. none of these things are really part of the calculation!
For great Airfare deals - PLEASE contact me via PM or email: whyaich@gmail.com

Offline ckmk47

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Aug 2012
  • Posts: 8032
  • Total likes: 1065
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 3
  • Gender: Female
    • View Profile
  • Location: brooklyn
Re: Car Lease v. Buying
« Reply #308 on: July 17, 2014, 02:40:12 AM »
AFAIK, if you buy new with the intention of selling every 3-4 years, it's actually cheaper to lease.

Let's run some numbers here:

Assuming you got the LE, you paid around $33k after taxes. In three years, assuming you used 15k miles and kept the car in good mechanical condition, your trade-in value will be approximately $18,500. That's approximately $5,000/yr.

Currently, the 2014 Sienna LE can be leased for $315/month, which is $3780/yr. Add approx $800 bank fee + $400 disposition fee (assuming you are not leasing another Toyota), it would be $3813 per year.

Long story short, if you are not keeping the vehicle for at least five years, you are better off leasing.
Thanks for that analysis.  I've been playing with the numbers for a few months now and have seen exactly what you've shown.  So for now I've still got it.  With Ergel's encouragement, I feel better about keeping it.
If 5 years works out to be the break even point, maybe I'll sell then.  (Then again, I may end up giving it to one of my kids along the way.  Then I can get a new one without selling or admitting defeat.   ::))
My favorite cause: cssy.org

Offline smee123

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite + Lifetime Silver Elite
  • *****
  • Join Date: Dec 2012
  • Posts: 603
  • Total likes: 1
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
  • Location: NY
Re: Car Lease v. Buying
« Reply #309 on: July 17, 2014, 07:50:51 AM »
The argument against leasing isn't necessarily to buy new. You can buy a 1-2 year old car for much better value than brand new.
I bought a car that was 6 months old with 6K miles for $6,500 off the price of a new car.
6,500 off MSRP isn't a real number.
That's not what you would pay.
The used car market is very strong, so the old rule about getting a great deal once it left the lot isn't really true.
For some reason mini vans loose allot of value the first few years, but otherwise not so much.

Offline MarkS

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Dec 2009
  • Posts: 3855
  • Total likes: 70
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 5
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Car Lease v. Buying
« Reply #310 on: July 17, 2014, 08:47:46 AM »
6,500 off MSRP isn't a real number.
That's not what you would pay.
The used car market is very strong, so the old rule about getting a great deal once it left the lot isn't really true.
For some reason mini vans loose allot of value the first few years, but otherwise not so much.
Im not sure what you are saying, but I paid $6,500 less than my friends who got the same car new. It was an unusually good deal bit the point is that buying a slightly used car is much better than having the zechus of driving it off the lot and dropping a few thousand in value in your hands.  Ley someone else take that drop and then tale it!

Offline alpicone

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite + Lifetime Gold Elite
  • ******
  • Join Date: Aug 2012
  • Posts: 879
  • Total likes: 5
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 2
    • View Profile
  • Location: New York
Re: Car Lease v. Buying
« Reply #311 on: July 17, 2014, 09:38:28 AM »
Im not sure what you are saying, but I paid $6,500 less than my friends who got the same car new. It was an unusually good deal bit the point is that buying a slightly used car is much better than having the zechus of driving it off the lot and dropping a few thousand in value in your hands.  Ley someone else take that drop and then tale it!

It's like trying to convince someone that there is great value in using miles over paying for tickets. Most people will come up with many excuses (don't have time, too difficult, not true, can never find the flights I want). They just leave more for everyone else.

Same with new vs. used, which is really different that buy vs. lease, but people can make whatever decisions they choose to make. Every new car buyer is one less used car buyer which leaves more for us.

Offline skyguy918

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Mar 2011
  • Posts: 4077
  • Total likes: 835
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Location: Queens, NY
Re: Car Lease v. Buying
« Reply #312 on: July 17, 2014, 09:59:34 AM »
It's like trying to convince someone that there is great value in using miles over paying for tickets. Most people will come up with many excuses (don't have time, too difficult, not true, can never find the flights I want). They just leave more for everyone else.

Same with new vs. used, which is really different that buy vs. lease, but people can make whatever decisions they choose to make. Every new car buyer is one less used car buyer which leaves more for us.
It's important to note that there are no ironclad rules about the relationships between buying used, new, or leasing. Everything depends on the current state of each market. The reason I say this is because the tighter the used car market supply is, the smaller the gap is between used and the other methods.

For a significant period of time after Sandy, the used car market became very tight in the NY metro area, and it became less and less worthwhile to buy used. I was looking to buy used at the time, and I spoke to a family friend who is in the business (he has a body shop and buys/sells used cars as well). He basically told me straight out not to buy used as the values just weren't out there at the time. This is from someone who stood to potentially make money off me if he would have had something worthwhile. I leased instead (there were other reasons for that decision too, but I won't get into that).

Offline Ergel

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jun 2010
  • Posts: 13070
  • Total likes: 905
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 3
    • View Profile
Re: Car Lease v. Buying
« Reply #313 on: July 17, 2014, 10:01:47 AM »
Can you give me an example of the price comparisons in your experience
Bump
Life isn't about checking the boxes. Nobody cares.

Offline sguitarist18

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jul 2011
  • Posts: 1838
  • Total likes: 895
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 6
    • View Profile
  • Location: NY
Re: Car Lease v. Buying
« Reply #314 on: November 10, 2014, 08:28:58 AM »
Can anyone help me - I've been trying to search for Dan's post about negotiating for a new car, but can't seem to find it...

Offline YMW

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite + Lifetime Silver Elite
  • *****
  • Join Date: May 2013
  • Posts: 691
  • Total likes: 8
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 3
    • View Profile
Re: Car Lease v. Buying
« Reply #315 on: December 09, 2014, 07:51:56 PM »
Can anyone help me? how much can I negotiate for a used "Toyota Sienna 2011 XLE limited AWD" with 32k miles? they're asking for 29k!

Offline moko

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Jul 2011
  • Posts: 4707
  • Total likes: 1572
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 2
    • View Profile
  • Location: BOS
Re: Car Lease v. Buying
« Reply #316 on: December 09, 2014, 08:17:44 PM »
Edmunds prices it at $25,175 in " clean " condition

Offline Ergel

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jun 2010
  • Posts: 13070
  • Total likes: 905
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 3
    • View Profile
Re: Car Lease v. Buying
« Reply #317 on: December 09, 2014, 08:59:21 PM »
Can anyone help me? how much can I negotiate for a used "Toyota Sienna 2011 XLE limited AWD" with 32k miles? they're asking for 29k!
IME, the spread hasn't been high enough to warrant buying used.
Think about how much closer you are too having to put money into the car: brakes, tires, etc. Is that worth it when you can negotiate within 3K of the used price?
Life isn't about checking the boxes. Nobody cares.

Offline moko

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Jul 2011
  • Posts: 4707
  • Total likes: 1572
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 2
    • View Profile
  • Location: BOS
Re: Car Lease v. Buying
« Reply #318 on: December 09, 2014, 09:27:50 PM »
IME, the spread hasn't been high enough to warrant buying used.
Think about how much closer you are too having to put money into the car: brakes, tires, etc. Is that worth it when you can negotiate within 3K of the used price?
here we go again

Offline avromie7

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Feb 2014
  • Posts: 8304
  • Total likes: 2747
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 6
    • View Profile
  • Location: Lakewood
Re: Car Lease v. Buying
« Reply #319 on: December 09, 2014, 10:27:10 PM »
IME, the spread hasn't been high enough to warrant buying used.
Think about how much closer you are too having to put money into the car: brakes, tires, etc. Is that worth it when you can negotiate within 3K of the used price?
i'm not sure where you get your numbers from it's a whole lot more for a new sienna (i'm not talking about the stripped version)
I wonder what people who type "u" instead of "you" do with all their free time.