another get story..

[Aaaron]

I think the shidduch system works as well for participants that look for a spouse with maturity.  Those who think the superficial facts are the important ones, or that pieces of paper can live happily ever after, may get in trouble.

Agreed.  Although the same thing can be said with FB and the internet.  When they're used maturely, it's not a problem.  However, no matter how mature you are, you can only know a person so well after dating for 3 weeks, then talking 2 twice a week for two months before marriage, then often hopping straight into parenthood.

[MnM1130]

Agreed.  Although the same thing can be said with FB and the internet.  When they're used maturely, it's not a problem.  However, no matter how mature you are, you can only know a person so well after dating for 3 weeks, then talking 2 twice a week for two months before marriage, then often hopping straight into parenthood.

even when you know a person for many years- pple still have marriage problems. i dont believe it has what to do with the system- its a matter each person to themselves.

[AsherO]

Now here's a guy who needs the cattle prod treatment in a serious way

Who said he didn't pour an equal amount of "sweat and tears" into the business?

[Dan]

Agreed.  Although the same thing can be said with FB and the internet.  When they're used maturely, it's not a problem.  However, no matter how mature you are, you can only know a person so well after dating for 3 weeks, then talking 2 twice a week for two months before marriage, then often hopping straight into parenthood.

Gotta agree here.
Most people research buying a laptop or cell phones more than than date their spouse.

Does the system work? For the most part.
But there are hundreds of people every year who have kids right away, realize they're not compatible only after tying the knot and getting pregnant, and are now in a terrible situation.  It's too easy for someone to hide their anger management issues or even a bipolar disorder while shidduch dating for a couple weeks.

More rabonim are becoming more lenient w/r/t a heter for shana rishonah because of this if the couple asks for one.

[MarkS]

More rabonim are becoming more lenient w/r/t a heter for shana rishonah because of this if the couple asks for one.

Most people going into marriage can't even fathom that they will have any issues so I don't think it will ever be common for a couple to (even subconsciously) hold off on having kids until they've 'test driven' the spouse and are confident they won't be returning her.

[Dan]

Most people going into marriage can't even fathom that they will have any issues

Before I got married I had several classmates and friends go through divorces during their first year.  Do people really not know the statistics these days when going into marriage?

[ckmk47]

Gotta agree here.
Most people research buying a laptop or cell phones more than than date their spouse.

Does the system work? For the most part.
But there are hundreds of people every year who have kids right away, realize they're not compatible only after tying the knot and getting pregnant, and are now in a terrible situation.  It's too easy for someone to hide their anger management issues or even a bipolar disorder while shidduch dating for a couple weeks.

More rabonim are becoming more lenient w/r/t a heter for shana rishonah because of this if the couple asks for one.

That's where 'information' comes in.  You try, but cannot always accomplish, to find out REAL personality issues before they meet.  Dishonesty, laziness, meanstreak.  These are things that should warrant further review before proceeding.

[Dan]

That's where 'information' comes in.  You try, but cannot always accomplish, to find out REAL personality issues before they meet.  Dishonesty, laziness, meanstreak.  These are things that should warrant further review before proceeding.

Those are all things you'll never know unless you do realllllllly good research as those are easy to hide during the actual short dating process.

[ckmk47]

Most people going into marriage can't even fathom that they will have any issues so I don't think it will ever be common for a couple to (even subconsciously) hold off on having kids until they've 'test driven' the spouse and are confident they won't be returning her.

Anyone who 'test drives' their marriage is not giving their emotions free reign to fall in love and compromise to MAKE a marriage. 

[Ergel]

Before I got married I had several classmates and friends go through divorces during their first year.  Do people really not know the statistics these days when going into marriage?

+1
But why is a test drive marriage the solution? Maybe a longer dating process?

[CountValentine]

Maybe a longer dating process?

This seems reasonable. Why the rush?

[ckmk47]

Those are all things you'll never know unless you do realllllllly good research as those are easy to hide during the actual short dating process.

Agreed.  That's why even those who've done good research still sometimes get a really bad apple.

But sometimes they were not really suited to each other.  And those marriages could have been avoided by being clearer with each other during the , even short, dating process.  Even those can sometimes be made to work out well for each party if they're willing to give it their all.

[Dan]

+1
But why is a test drive marriage the solution? Maybe a longer dating process?

First of all I disagree with the test drive term.
Pregnancy adds a huge amount of stress into a marriage.  The girl is throwing up, feels fat, is lethargic, etc, etc.  Instead of spending time learning to know each other it's spent being nauseous.

Perhaps if those same couples that had issues during their first year when the wife was pregnant would not have issues learning to become a couple without that added stress.

Learning to become a couple is a challenge for most people, it's stressful.  Adding the stress of pregnancy and the stress of a baby on top of that all in the first year is what breaks many marriages that could otherwise survive.

Second of all if someone can hide those qualities for 3 weeks can they not hide them for 6?
It's not so much a test drive as making sure there aren't demons hiding that will cause decades of pain to yourselves and offspring.

[MarkS]

Before I got married I had several classmates and friends go through divorces during their first year.  Do people really not know the statistics these days when going into marriage?

They can know it from today till tomorrow but no one thinks that may be them.

[Dan]

They can know it from today till tomorrow but no one thinks that may be them.

Then there is something broken.
People should be better educated going into both dating and marriage.

[Ergel]

First of all I disagree with the test drive term.
Pregnancy adds a huge amount of stress into a marriage.  The girl is throwing up, feels fat, is lethargic, etc, etc.  Instead of spending time learning to know each other it's spent being nauseous.

Perhaps if those same couples that had issues during their first year when the wife was pregnant would not have issues learning to become a couple without that added stress.

Learning to become a couple is a challenge for most people, it's stressful.  Adding the stress of pregnancy and the stress of a baby on top of that all in the first year is what breaks many marriages that could otherwise survive.

Second of all if someone can hide those qualities for 3 weeks can they not hide them for 6?
It's not so much a test drive as making sure there aren't demons hiding that will cause decades of pain to yourselves and offspring.

Agreed with all this. Pregnancy definitely adds stress to a new situation. The last paragraph still bothers me a little-the time should be viewed as a relationship building opportunity. Not a vetting process-that should be figured out before, no matter how long it takes

[Ergel]

And I don't mean to say there won't or shouldn't be divorce

[ckmk47]

 Maybe a longer dating process?

Maybe.  But advocate a stronger, deeper dating process.
 
The first date should not be all 'fluff' without substance.  Get into the basic issues right away.  The dates are not to see if you can have a good time together, they're to see if you can marry each other.

Look for someone you can communicate with. And someone who's goals match yours.
Communication starts on the first date.  Talk about Obamacare, the Yankees, or the benefits of Amazon Prime, for all I care.  But give honest opinions without felling like you have to  hold back  your opinion because you're being judged.
Proceed over the dates to express what kind of life you want to lead, where you're headed in life.  For example, is having a porsche important and why.   Is having a daily shiur important or helping with the family should take precedence.  Are the kids her job or their job?

[Dan]

Agreed with all this. Pregnancy definitely adds stress to a new situation. The last paragraph still bothers me a little-the time should be viewed as a relationship building opportunity. Not a vetting process-that should be figured out before, no matter how long it takes

Ideally you're correct.
And yet, see OP.
Some thing just won't come out unless we're talking about year long dating periods which will lead to bigger problems.

[CountValentine]

Is it pregnancy that brings stress into the marriage? Or being pregnant at such a young age? I know I am always the oddball but I did not see the stress you are talking about with our first child. If anything it brought us closer together.