Author Topic: Alaska Master Thread  (Read 163525 times)

Offline yehuda S

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Re: Alaska Master Thread
« Reply #180 on: May 31, 2013, 04:13:34 PM »
Also, have I not mentioned that I loved the chabad folks there, the Greenbergs. Although, it is definitely a tourist area chabad, and shabbos meals cost about 80 bucks a person for both meals.
It's a lot of money.  ???
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Offline henche

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Re: Alaska Master Thread
« Reply #181 on: May 31, 2013, 04:19:34 PM »
It's a lot of money.  ???

It is. Alaska is a tourist trap, and an expensive one at that. While some of us ddf-ers manage to do it on a budget, most tourists there are spending wild amounts of money, and 40 dollars for a good meal is not off the wall. People would pay that much with no questions if there was a commercial enterprise running shabbos meals in ANC.

It also is a bit more manageable if you are only a party of 2 and it's a grand total of 160.

If you are 7-8 people, then it really does make sense to do your own shabbos. Buy some fresh salmon if you don't mind the buggies, and a disposable grill, and eat like (eskimo) kings.

What % of ddf-ers do we think don't eat the buggies? Is there a chabad consensus on it? We certainly ate salmon there when I was there, but I don't remember if that was before or after we found out about the buggies.

Offline henche

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Re: Alaska Master Thread
« Reply #182 on: May 31, 2013, 04:24:08 PM »
Quote
We are not recommending wild salmon due to the anisakis. Perhaps in that area there aren’t anisakis, you’d have to research to determine.
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WADR, I think this may not be correct even according to the opinions who are not eating the buggies.

The shulchan aruch says that bugs in the fish are muttar because they come from the fish. However, people have observed that the buggies are migrating from the stomach to the flesh, which would make it assur.

The theory I have heard to align the halacha with the observation, is that we are eating fish a longer amount of time after caught, which allows time for them to migrate. And that the ones which migrate are assur. If you go fishing, and eat the fish with a few hours like people used to, then that theory would not apply.

Do we know how long it usually takes before the buggies migrate?

Am I right about all this?

Offline Something Fishy

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Re: Alaska Master Thread
« Reply #183 on: May 31, 2013, 04:50:56 PM »
Am I right about all this?

From the study:

Quote
Previous studies on other fish species have shown rather controversial results concerning possible migration, and a hypothesis has been proposed that Anisakis larvae are only stimulated to migrate in ‘fatty' fish species (Wharton et al. 1999). Alaskan salmon can be considered as more fatty than lean, and the purpose of this part of the study was to obtain more knowledge about possible post-mortem migration of Anisakis larvae from the viscera into the surrounding flesh of Alaskan salmon under commercial storage conditions either on ice or in RSW (refrigerated sea water).

The storage of fresh-caught salmon in RSW for up to 24 h is normal practice which is applied widely on board the tenders receiving fish from small fishing boats during the salmon run seasons. Storage on wet ice was also tested, which is currently not viable due to the lack of ice manufacturing capacity in the US salmon industry. No tendency of post-mortem migration was observed from the viscera into the flesh, irrespective of the fish species and the storage conditions (Table 5). The results are not unexpected, considering the low abundance and intensity of Anisakis larvae in the viscera. The high number of nematodes in the muscle meat of fresh-caught Pacific salmon indicates that a migration into the flesh must occur either directly after intake of the nematodes via feeding or during earlier stages of the host life cycle.

Can anyone make heads of tails of this?
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Offline henche

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Re: Alaska Master Thread
« Reply #184 on: May 31, 2013, 04:57:31 PM »
From the study:

Can anyone make heads of tails of this?

It looks like that is directly contrary to the migration theory.

Maybe the machmirim are using a theory of migration while alive, and thinking that the nature of buggies changed since the time of the shulchan aruch? I'm not entirely convinced that the psak of the shulchan aruch would not apply to live migration, since undoubtedly there was never really spontaneous generation, so the buggies must have come from somewhere outside the fish at some point.

Unless, maybe Hashem creates new teva when we develop the technology to observe it. So maybe buggies used to spontaneously generate, but then when pasteur figured out how to observe that, then Hashem made them be born from eggs, etc. So maybe it was true in the time of chazal but not now.
But if that was the case, then we should stop using any of the halachos which rely on it, such as eating cheese mites.

Offline Something Fishy

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Re: Alaska Master Thread
« Reply #185 on: May 31, 2013, 05:08:18 PM »
such as eating cheese mites.

Oh gosh. I really do NOT want to know what that is. :o
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Re: Alaska Master Thread
« Reply #186 on: May 31, 2013, 05:22:52 PM »
We bought  food at natural pantry when we went to AK.

Offline yehuda S

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Re: Alaska Master Thread
« Reply #187 on: June 01, 2013, 11:09:38 PM »
We bought  food at natural pantry when we went to AK.
How was the selection?
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Re: Alaska Master Thread
« Reply #188 on: June 02, 2013, 02:18:43 AM »
How was the selection?
Was ok. They has some frozen turkey but not much on the meat end. Grape juice and matzah snacks etc there were plenty of. You can also stop in Walmart, you will pass one on the way from Anchorage towards Seward where we found kosher bagels and a lot of good food options.

Offline yehuda S

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Re: Alaska Master Thread
« Reply #189 on: June 02, 2013, 02:28:20 AM »
Was ok. They has some frozen turkey but not much on the meat end. Grape juice and matzah snacks etc there were plenty of. You can also stop in Walmart, you will pass one on the way from Anchorage towards Seward where we found kosher bagels and a lot of good food options.
Interesting. Thanks for sharing. Any other recommendations on where to find kosher food?
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Offline yehuda S

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Work is what you do between vacations.

Offline henche

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Re: Alaska Master Thread
« Reply #191 on: June 02, 2013, 11:07:01 AM »
Oh gosh. I really do NOT want to know what that is. :o

Cheese mites  are little buggies that live in cheese that is aged specifically with those buggies. It is muttar to eat cheese that is infested with cheese mites, but if they crawl out onto your plate, then you can't eat them anymore.


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Re: Alaska Master Thread
« Reply #192 on: June 02, 2013, 02:39:13 PM »
Interesting. Thanks for sharing. Any other recommendations on where to find kosher food?
When I went that was it, besides for what chabad has I guess. I didn't end up going to chabad. I brought food with me as us domestic is pretty simple to bring your own.

Offline yehuda S

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Re: Alaska Master Thread
« Reply #193 on: June 14, 2013, 12:34:37 AM »
Fishy, have you thought about this place? It looks amazing.

http://www.sewardbiketours.com/Alaska_Mt._Bike_Trails/Alaska_Mt._Bike_Trails.html
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Offline Something Fishy

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Re: Alaska Master Thread
« Reply #194 on: June 14, 2013, 12:49:31 AM »
Fishy, have you thought about this place? It looks amazing.

http://www.sewardbiketours.com/Alaska_Mt._Bike_Trails/Alaska_Mt._Bike_Trails.html

Interesting, but not for me. My wife will hate it.
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Offline Something Fishy

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Re: Alaska Master Thread
« Reply #195 on: June 14, 2013, 01:02:27 AM »
Somehwat... Still figuring out some options.

Land ANC Sun. 1:30PM. Pick up RV and get settled. Drive to Walmart to stock up.
Spend the rest of the day driving down to Seward, taking it nice and slow. Stop at lookouts, etc. Take the Alyeska tram if the weather is nice (2 for 1 w/Toursaver). Want to do the Gridwood hand tram hike, but it's an 8-mile RT from the last place an RV could access., so probably not gonna happen. Camp in the Seward area.

Mon. - 7.5 hour Kenai Fjords cruise with Major Marine (2 for 1). Relax and explore Seward afterwards. Camp in either Seward or Miller's Landing.

Tue. - Half day Kayaking in the Seward area. Still didn't decide on an outfitter or trip, but it'll probably be Miller's Landing Tours. Hike Exit Glacier afterwards (probably not all of it, will probably be too sore and tired). Have reservations for the Williwaw campground on Portage Lake (on the way to Whittier).

Wed. - Very open at this point. Want to do ATVing and hiking in the Talkeetna area, but still working out the timing to see if it's possible at all.

Thu. - Some more hiking and driving. Depending on what I end up doing Wed., it'll probably be something in either the Talkeetna / Wassila area, or the Chugach National Forest area. Return RV by 6pm, and depart ANC at 9:25.

Updated itin:

Tue.: Kayaking with Miller's Landing (Cains Head Adventure). Leave Seward about 4, skipping Exit Glacier, and head to the Williwaw campground directly. Check out the salmon run and possibly hike to Byron Glacier. Make an early night.

Wed.: Leave the Kenai Penn. early (6ish) and head to Palmer to meet up with Heiny's ATVs. ATVing the Boulder Creek trail (approx. 9 hours) or the Elkutna Lake trail (5 hours). Camp at Grandview campground on the Glenn Highway.

Thu.: Manenuska Glacier Ice trek (3-4 hours). Make our slow, scenic way back to ANC, return the RV by 6, and catch our flight at 9:30.
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Offline bem684

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Re: Alaska Master Thread
« Reply #196 on: June 14, 2013, 09:20:34 AM »
Admittedly I didn't read any of this thread, though I did quickly search it for keywords :)  Has anyone driven the Dalton Highway or toured the Prudhoe Bay area?

Offline henche

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Re: Alaska Master Thread
« Reply #197 on: June 14, 2013, 10:25:56 AM »
Admittedly I didn't read any of this thread, though I did quickly search it for keywords :)  Has anyone driven the Dalton Highway or toured the Prudhoe Bay area?

Yes, and no.

It is generally unadvised, since:
1. it is hundreds of miles of dirt road that takes forever
2. It is against the rental contract.
3. It is highly likely you will get a flat tire or broken windshield.
4. if you get that broken windshield or flat tire, you will pay quite for a tow truck to come get you hundreds of miles (there is a gas station at about mile 60 and about mile 180)
5. You will be trying to get that hitch to the gas station to ask the tow truck to come, for  a long time (no cell service)

and most of all:
6. There is NOTHING to do at prudhoe bay. The area is restricted, and they will not allow you to go to the ocean or see anything.

(I was hiking in the Gates of the Arctic, that is why I drove it, till  just past coldfoot)

Offline Something Fishy

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Re: Alaska Master Thread
« Reply #198 on: June 14, 2013, 10:40:48 AM »
Yes, and no.

It is generally unadvised, since:
1. it is hundreds of miles of dirt road that takes forever
2. It is against the rental contract.
3. It is highly likely you will get a flat tire or broken windshield.
4. if you get that broken windshield or flat tire, you will pay quite for a tow truck to come get you hundreds of miles (there is a gas station at about mile 60 and about mile 180)
5. You will be trying to get that hitch to the gas station to ask the tow truck to come, for  a long time (no cell service)

and most of all:
6. There is NOTHING to do at prudhoe bay. The area is restricted, and they will not allow you to go to the ocean or see anything.

(I was hiking in the Gates of the Arctic, that is why I drove it, till  just past coldfoot)

+1, mostly.

All correct about driving, is not worth it. However, there are guided tours which will fly you there (from Fairbanks and possibly some points further north) and give you an official tour of the oil fields. You'll also be able to "dip your toes into the Arctic ocean" according to their website.

All in less then a day for quite a reasonable price IIRC.
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Offline henche

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Re: Alaska Master Thread
« Reply #199 on: June 14, 2013, 10:44:27 AM »
+1, mostly.

All correct about driving, is not worth it. However, there are guided tours which will fly you there (from Fairbanks and possibly some points further north) and give you an official tour of the oil fields. You'll also be able to "dip your toes into the Arctic ocean" according to their website.

All in less then a day for quite a reasonable price IIRC.

Didn't know about that. In any event, certainly don't expect to drive up and be let in