"Ex-Hasidic Woman Marks Five Years Since She Shaved Her Head"

[Centro]

@churnbabychurn. in certain groups, its not only hair that is always covered. its lights off covers on

If you categorize ppl who follow the shilchen urich as a Group then youre right.

[yuneeq]

@jj
My dad isn't sefardi if that helps answer your question

[yehuda S]

There's nothing sefardi about what I said. A man sets the halachos of his home; that's the halacha. (Similarly, ever heard that a man can be meifer his wife's neder?) That doesn't mean they can not have a discussion about it. They can have the discussion, and if he still decides that she shouldn't cut her hair, she must listen to him.

I'm not saying that it's reasonable for a husband to decide to go against all his wife's chumras/minhagim. However, there are minhagim or chumros that impact the husband, and those are/should be the ones that in the end of the day, in the husband hands.

Unfortunately, the feminist doctrine seems to have seeped into a couple of posters hashkofas.

While I agree with your comments I do think that since the couple may have opposing minhagim the guideline helps forestall marital conflict by giving the husband authority.

If you have a situation today in which a husband is trying to force his wife to follow his minhag against her will, there are bigger problems to address.

As far as the feminist doctrine goes, we have all been affected by the modern secular conception of marriage. Things are simply not the way they were 1,000 or even 100 years ago. And if you don't believe that simply ask the many wives who work to support their husbands while the husbands try to maintain a 1500's type marriage   

[ganizzy]

If you categorize ppl who follow the shilchen urich as a Group then youre right.

i was trying to answer his question and be tznius. especially as one of the lone women commenting here. i'm sure u can extrapolate from my statement the answer to his q

[Menachem613]

While I agree with your comments I do think that since the couple may have opposing minhagim the guideline helps forestall marital conflict by giving the husband authority.

If you have a situation today in which a husband is trying to force his wife to follow his minhag against her will, there are bigger problems to address.

As far as the feminist doctrine goes, we have all been affected by the modern secular conception of marriage. Things are simply not the way they were 1,000 or even 100 years ago. And if you don't believe that simply ask the many wives who work to support their husbands while the husbands try to maintain a 1500's type marriage   

Well said.  In fact, modern thinking has affected other areas as well.  Beyond the feminist doctrine, I am sure most of us think of slavery, kedushai k'tanah, Ones u-mefateh, parenting and other areas very differently too.

[wayfe]

As far as the feminist doctrine goes, we have all been affected by the modern secular conception of marriage. Things are simply not the way they were 1,000 or even 100 years ago. And if you don't believe that simply ask the many wives who work to support their husbands while the husbands try to maintain a 1500's type marriage   

And how many actually are? To me it seems that many men are perfectly content being packed off to kollel with their little lunch baggies while their wives do the parenting, breadwinning and housekeeping.

[churnbabychurn]

Well said.  In fact, modern thinking has affected other areas as well.  Beyond the feminist doctrine, I am sure most of us think of slavery, kedushai k'tanah, Ones u-mefateh, parenting and other areas very differently too.

Yet some of us don't understand these concepts the way the torah intended anyway.

[Satmar Lady]

I'm starting to think that you're not really Satmar, or you have no idea what goes on in KJ. This is a reality, I know first hand of women who got criticized by Mikva ladies about not cutting their hair, and then the Vaad mysteriously found out about it.

"If you want to send your kids to our institutions...." Is that a justification for invading in a persons most intimate private part of their life? it's not like they advertise it, or tell anyone, just that they found out that she goes out of town to the mikva, so they figured out the reason. Is that even justifiable humanely? torahdig?



Not to all these bogus reasons why you need to do it.
Zohar/Kabala: Just says that the hair and nails that grow בימי נדה have some scary little black demons attached to them, but according to this reason, just cutting off the amount that grew in those two weeks would be enough.

סחיטה: If they would really care about that they wouldn't make their men go to the mikva on shabbos morning, and if they did at least make shiurim to tell them how careful they should be about it. Heck, you make women shave their heads their entire lives for this, and you won't stress it to the men who have long beards?
Also, if that would be the real reason wouldn't you make the women shave their whole body?

חציצה: Same as above, nobody cares of you have long hair in other places on your body, so don't try selling to me that חציצה is that's bothering you.

Also, for thousands of years, without proper showers, shampoo, and plenty of water, women got by just fine without חציצות, but now when we have all these things, hygiene is like it's never been before, today you're really worried about it? do we really need to be holier than the imahos?

קמחית: First of all, she didn't shave, she just covered it so well that the walls of her house never saw her hair, so why force someone to shave based on that? Second, going with that logic we would have thousands of כוהנים גדולים today, where are they all? Third, the gemara tells us about it because she was an anomaly, not the norm, the wives of תנאים and אמוראים didn't do it, but you expect it today, why? Forth, I once heard in the name of a Rav, don't remember which, that if קמחית had 7 sons כוהנים גדולים in her lifetime, that means that 6 of her sons died in her lifetime, so why would she be punished in such a way? The answer is because she was מנוול herself before her husband.

No one knows where and when this minhag started, there's no documentation, תשובה, or anything pointing to a point when rabanim decided that women should start doing it. Rather it was started somewhere a few hundred years ago in eastern Europe, and there were a few factors that caused it, non of it were צניעות or anything, and didn't come from high up, rather from the peasants and primitive villages. There was the factor of it being a protection against rape that was prevalent in those days, to disgust the potential perpetrator. Then there was the factor of the belief in those days that knotted hair has some demonic power, and they got that from the goyishe neighbors, not from the zoha r. But once the practice became wide spread then all these obscure reasons and justifications started popping up. But those were n,tustifications after the fact.

I'm as Satmar as you can get, but you're right on with the second guess. I just know enough about KJ to state that anything I said about Satmar might be disregarded in their case. Its leadership is much more authoritarian. The fact that a majority of Satmar chasidim left him, although as the older brother he should have been the rightful heir, says much about satmar's level of tolerance to that kind of leadership.
I agree that the methods you're describing are disturbing. As a matter of fact, 1 of the mikveh attendants I mentioned before is Satmar Williamsburg, and she said she's been instructed by the management never to comment on hair. But I still think the parents are being dishonest, which isn't a fine attribute either. I'm sure they signed some form stating they'll follow all the rules, and then they went ahead and broke them. Why don't you just pick yourself up and leave? Move to a city where you can send your child to a neutral school. You can still daven in satmar and be part.
About the mekor of this custom: just curious, what is the source? I'd love to look it up.

[Ergel]

Can you post what the Ibn Ezra says there?

Sorry. My phone died. He just quotes the gemara that tochachos shebimishneh Torah Moshe mipi atzmo amran that Moshe spoke the words in sefer devarim of his volition, not from god and that all of devarim was like that.
The way the rishonim explain this gemara is that Moshe said the tochachos on his own and therefore they are good own words but they only became part of the Torah when God repeated them to him and told him to write them down.
Nothing that the ibn Ezra says contradicts that

[Ergel]

Why do you hope so? I won't mind seeing every Yid in Olam Haba, I don't feel like it'll take away from my experience in any way.

Because that's what the gemara and Rambam say? Obviously it won't effect your chelek in the olam haemes

[yehuda S]

About the mekor of this custom: just curious, what is the source? I'd love to look it up.

If you follow this custom please do not accept ANY psak or believe any source from an anonymous poster on the Internet. Satmar Guy has some interesting points but if you are really interested in the source for this custom maybe contact an unbiased non chassidic rabbinical authority like Rabbi Leff from Moshav Matityahu- offhand that's all I can think of.

[rots5]

Some people write about deals and price mistakes, some about food, some about their kids, and some about their cats. She wants to write about her life, now get out the pitchforks and let's blame her for being born in a place where she had to stand before 7 men who dictated her most intimate details of her life.
I'm sorry to break it to you, many men are not okay with it. But by the time they hit puberty they are married with 3 kids and never had a say in the matter.
I find that usually when someone says "I won't generalize, but..." they're about to do exactly that...

usually when i mean to offend someone i will start off staying no offense, its a subconscious way to say what you want and feel that you dont wanna offend anyone.. ask unique.

well here it goes.. take offense please.. your a complete fool and i will call you out on it!

1 - people writing price mistakes and finding deals is not a private matter! its fun nice enjoyable hobby for some! talking about how you went off the D bec u had a husband/commuinty for an ass is not my business and no one else's UNLESS its needed, i promise you all the chassidishe OTD crap now a days is not needed!! so please dont compare what is a hobby to something that should stay in the four walls of someones home...

2 - the greatness if Judaism now a days is that one can be frum and yet doesnt have to follow the strictest rules out there. right? look, if someone has an issue the way they grew up they can change it when they get married. obviously its a discussion for your husband and urself but dont make it a public one. secondly if your not happy where u are why go to the opp extreme, grow your damn hair, wear a shtaiel, cover your utters, and keep shabb. there are plenty of places a person or family can start a-new. so yes i do get my pitch forks out bec i dont believe in the fact that she NEEDS to write about how she went off the derech.

3 - i personally have been saying this for years, someone who writes about how they went off has no confidence and has massive issues! look at riech... a zona (edited) in her own way, how did she get noticed by every guy and even a TV station, bec she went public on her story, she had other intentions she doesnt give a darn about Judaism bec she thinks she will make it as an ugly 40 yr old model. (thats what my mommy said)

4 - no need to break anything to me, im married and know what it means to discuss things over with my wife. yes, ever heard of that?!?! i know ur pulling for the chasidishe crap now a days, but hate to break it to YOU, but did you ever hear of discussing things with a spouse? if her and her husband both felt (as it seems like it was mutual) that there was issues where they lived, they both could have found another for liberal, yet chasidishe, place to live. so dont say first things go off the D if im not happy.

5 - @meshugy - anger doesnt mean you have to write about it, its stupid and useless. it gets more people agnry at you for writing about it. and whats this whole cult business? judiamsm is a cult, you get to pick details of your cult if you want, thats the way i see it. and to be honest most jews are proud to be jewishand part of this cult. there will always be a few bad apples, just gotta ignore them.

[Vosizderneias]

On one hand its weird to talk about personal thing, HOWEVER, if a person feels very strongly about something, and is able to inspire and lead others to follow, than it may be worth revealing what is usually.  private

[Crazy tools]

Interesting question posed to Rabbi Shais Taub in the Ami this week. Check it out. About a chasidish lady who's husband doesn't like to wear Veissa Zuken and she doesn't like to shave her head.

[Dan]

Interesting question posed to Rabbi Shais Taub in the Ami this week. Check it out. About a chasidish lady who's husband doesn't like to wear Veissa Zuken and she doesn't like to shave her head.

Lol, can probably ask him about it right here on DDF.

[yehuda S]

Interesting question posed to Rabbi Shais Taub in the Ami this week. Check it out. About a chasidish lady who's husband doesn't like to wear Veissa Zuken and she doesn't like to shave her head.

Do you mind posting it for those who don't subscribe to Ami?

[Crazy tools]

Lol, can probably ask him about it right here on DDF.

Didn't know he's a member here!
I always enjoy what he has to say. He's dead on!

[Crazy tools]

Do you mind posting it for those who don't subscribe to Ami?

I would have no idea how to do that.
Would Ami even allow?

[yehuda S]

I would have no idea how to do that.
Would Ami even allow?

Just give us the 30 second recap..

[yuneeq]

"Veissa Zuken"

What's that?