Author Topic: "Ex-Hasidic Woman Marks Five Years Since She Shaved Her Head"  (Read 88782 times)

Offline meshugener

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Re: "Ex-Hasidic Woman Marks Five Years Since She Shaved Her Head"
« Reply #300 on: November 16, 2013, 09:00:47 PM »
usually when i mean to offend someone i will start off staying no offense, its a subconscious way to say what you want and feel that you dont wanna offend anyone.. ask unique.

well here it goes.. take offense please.. your a complete fool and i will call you out on it!

1 - people writing price mistakes and finding deals is not a private matter! its fun nice enjoyable hobby for some! talking about how you went off the D bec u had a husband/commuinty for an ass is not my business and no one else's UNLESS its needed, i promise you all the chassidishe OTD crap now a days is not needed!! so please dont compare what is a hobby to something that should stay in the four walls of someones home...

2 - the greatness if Judaism now a days is that one can be frum and yet doesnt have to follow the strictest rules out there. right? look, if someone has an issue the way they grew up they can change it when they get married. obviously its a discussion for your husband and urself but dont make it a public one. secondly if your not happy where u are why go to the opp extreme, grow your damn hair, wear a shtaiel, cover your utters, and keep shabb. there are plenty of places a person or family can start a-new. so yes i do get my pitch forks out bec i dont believe in the fact that she NEEDS to write about how she went off the derech.

3 - i personally have been saying this for years, someone who writes about how they went off has no confidence and has massive issues! look at riech... a zona (edited) in her own way, how did she get noticed by every guy and even a TV station, bec she went public on her story, she had other intentions she doesnt give a darn about Judaism bec she thinks she will make it as an ugly 40 yr old model. (thats what my mommy said)

4 - no need to break anything to me, im married and know what it means to discuss things over with my wife. yes, ever heard of that?!?! i know ur pulling for the chasidishe crap now a days, but hate to break it to YOU, but did you ever hear of discussing things with a spouse? if her and her husband both felt (as it seems like it was mutual) that there was issues where they lived, they both could have found another for liberal, yet chasidishe, place to live. so dont say first things go off the D if im not happy.

5 - @meshugy - anger doesnt mean you have to write about it, its stupid and useless. it gets more people agnry at you for writing about it. and whats this whole cult business? judiamsm is a cult, you get to pick details of your cult if you want, thats the way i see it. and to be honest most jews are proud to be jewishand part of this cult. there will always be a few bad apples, just gotta ignore them.
Well said.
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Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: "Ex-Hasidic Woman Marks Five Years Since She Shaved Her Head"
« Reply #301 on: November 16, 2013, 09:01:05 PM »
Sorry, I will get in trouble if I say anymore.
You understand these sodos?

Offline yuneeq

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Re: "Ex-Hasidic Woman Marks Five Years Since She Shaved Her Head"
« Reply #302 on: November 16, 2013, 09:01:19 PM »
@jj

A) I've never met the 2 that claim I'm sfardi.

B) You deserved a vague response. I wrote a post with seemingly good points, and in response, you imply that my points are worthless because you think I'm sfardi. Whether or not I am sfardi, be respectful and stay on topic.
Visibly Jewish

Offline Menachem613

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Re: "Ex-Hasidic Woman Marks Five Years Since She Shaved Her Head"
« Reply #303 on: November 16, 2013, 09:02:23 PM »
You understand these sodos?

Yes.  They aren't sodos anymore.

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: "Ex-Hasidic Woman Marks Five Years Since She Shaved Her Head"
« Reply #304 on: November 16, 2013, 09:05:01 PM »
Yes.  They aren't sodos anymore.
Wow, im impressed. Please "enlighten" us!

« Last Edit: November 16, 2013, 09:08:12 PM by churnbabychurn »

Offline Menachem613

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Re: "Ex-Hasidic Woman Marks Five Years Since She Shaved Her Head"
« Reply #305 on: November 16, 2013, 09:07:13 PM »
Wow, im impressed. Please "enlighten" us!

If you went to any half decent yeshiva you should be able figure it out. I'm not spoon feeding you.  It's really not a secret.

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: "Ex-Hasidic Woman Marks Five Years Since She Shaved Her Head"
« Reply #306 on: November 16, 2013, 09:08:27 PM »
If you went to any half decent yeshiva you should be able figure it out. I'm not spoon feeding you.  It's really not a secret.
BTW As a general rule, and personal advice to you, we dont try to superimpose an "enlightened" world view into the reshonim. The opposite, we should try to mold our world view after the theirs.

Offline Menachem613

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Re: "Ex-Hasidic Woman Marks Five Years Since She Shaved Her Head"
« Reply #307 on: November 16, 2013, 09:10:18 PM »
BTW As a general rule, and personal advice to you, we dont try to superimpose an "enlightened" world view into the reshonim. The opposite, we should try to mold our world view after the theirs.

I agree.

Offline Ergel

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Re: "Ex-Hasidic Woman Marks Five Years Since She Shaved Her Head"
« Reply #308 on: November 16, 2013, 09:10:37 PM »
Sorry, I will get in trouble if I say anymore.
??? I don't get it. You tell people that it's ok to believe that the whole torah is not misinai. You quote a mareh makom that's in code to support it. and now you say you'll get in trouble.
Where are you spewing this stuff from? Shapiro?
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Offline meshugener

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Re: "Ex-Hasidic Woman Marks Five Years Since She Shaved Her Head"
« Reply #309 on: November 16, 2013, 09:13:27 PM »
I'm starting to think that you're not really Satmar, or you have no idea what goes on in KJ. This is a reality, I know first hand of women who got criticized by Mikva ladies about not cutting their hair, and then the Vaad mysteriously found out about it.

"If you want to send your kids to our institutions...." Is that a justification for invading in a persons most intimate private part of their life? it's not like they advertise it, or tell anyone, just that they found out that she goes out of town to the mikva, so they figured out the reason. Is that even justifiable humanely? torahdig?



Not to all these bogus reasons why you need to do it.
Zohar/Kabala: Just says that the hair and nails that grow בימי נדה have some scary little black demons attached to them, but according to this reason, just cutting off the amount that grew in those two weeks would be enough.

סחיטה: If they would really care about that they wouldn't make their men go to the mikva on shabbos morning, and if they did at least make shiurim to tell them how careful they should be about it. Heck, you make women shave their heads their entire lives for this, and you won't stress it to the men who have long beards?
Also, if that would be the real reason wouldn't you make the women shave their whole body?

חציצה: Same as above, nobody cares of you have long hair in other places on your body, so don't try selling to me that חציצה is that's bothering you.

Also, for thousands of years, without proper showers, shampoo, and plenty of water, women got by just fine without חציצות, but now when we have all these things, hygiene is like it's never been before, today you're really worried about it? do we really need to be holier than the imahos?

קמחית: First of all, she didn't shave, she just covered it so well that the walls of her house never saw her hair, so why force someone to shave based on that? Second, going with that logic we would have thousands of כוהנים גדולים today, where are they all? Third, the gemara tells us about it because she was an anomaly, not the norm, the wives of תנאים and אמוראים didn't do it, but you expect it today, why? Forth, I once heard in the name of a Rav, don't remember which, that if קמחית had 7 sons כוהנים גדולים in her lifetime, that means that 6 of her sons died in her lifetime, so why would she be punished in such a way? The answer is because she was מנוול herself before her husband.

No one knows where and when this minhag started, there's no documentation, תשובה, or anything pointing to a point when rabanim decided that women should start doing it. Rather it was started somewhere a few hundred years ago in eastern Europe, and there were a few factors that caused it, non of it were צניעות or anything, and didn't come from high up, rather from the peasants and primitive villages. There was the factor of it being a protection against rape that was prevalent in those days, to disgust the potential perpetrator. Then there was the factor of the belief in those days that knotted hair has some demonic power, and they got that from the goyishe neighbors, not from the zohar. But once the practice became wide spread then all these obscure reasons and justifications started popping up. But those were just that, justifications after the fact.

You do make some good points, you're definitely a smart man (I thought I'm the smartest person in satmar, now you busted my bubble).

But one point you refer to which I believe you didn't understand what I meant.
קמחית: No one ever said that she shaved her head and that's the mekor of shaving. I just said that since some don't want their hair to be uncovered under any circumstances - citing the gemoro of קמחית - they see no point in keeping their hair. So they don't really mind following the rules of shaving.
That's all I said.

Over the shabbos I asked my rav the reason of shaving, and he told me it s because of tznius. Its a geder they made so the hair should not be seen uncovered.
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Offline jj1000

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Offline Menachem613

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Re: "Ex-Hasidic Woman Marks Five Years Since She Shaved Her Head"
« Reply #311 on: November 16, 2013, 09:14:53 PM »
??? I don't get it. You tell people that it's ok to believe that the whole torah is not misinai. You quote a mareh makom that's in code to support it. and now you say you'll get in trouble.
Where are you spewing this stuff from? Shapiro?

 ??? Please don't put words in my mouth. 

Offline meshugener

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Offline meshugener

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Re: "Ex-Hasidic Woman Marks Five Years Since She Shaved Her Head"
« Reply #313 on: November 16, 2013, 09:17:37 PM »

As a matter of fact, 1 of the mikveh attendants I mentioned before is Satmar Williamsburg, and she said she's been instructed by the management never to comment on hair.
+1
They make no issue at all for un-shaved ladies.
But well, KJ could be different.
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Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: &quot;Ex-Hasidic Woman Marks Five Years Since She Shaved Her Head&quot;
« Reply #314 on: November 16, 2013, 09:17:46 PM »
I agree.
So why did you buy some absolute bunk from an enlightened "rabbi" who tried to convince his amei haaretz congregants that the whole torah is not missinai and he had the audacity to accuse the Iben Ezra of holding of his conspiracy based on a cryptic pirush that neither he nor you have a clue as to his meaning?

Offline Ergel

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Re: "Ex-Hasidic Woman Marks Five Years Since She Shaved Her Head"
« Reply #315 on: November 16, 2013, 09:19:45 PM »
So why did you buy some absolute bunk from an enlightened "rabbi" who tried to convince his amei haaretz congregants that the whole torah is not missinai and he had the audacity to accuse the Iben Ezra of holding of his conspiracy based on a cryptic pirush that neither he nor you have a clue as to his meaning?
+10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000^1000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
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Offline Menachem613

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Re: &quot;Ex-Hasidic Woman Marks Five Years Since She Shaved Her Head&quot;
« Reply #316 on: November 16, 2013, 09:20:33 PM »
So why did you buy some absolute bunk from an enlightened "rabbi" who tried to convince his amei haaretz congregants that the whole torah is not missinai and he had the audacity to accuse the Iben Ezra of holding of his conspiracy based on a cryptic pirush that neither he nor you have a clue as to his meaning?

I have no idea of what you are talking about and nor do I care.  I will repeat it for the last time: the pirush is not cryptic at all. Spend more time in the beis medrash and less time on DDF.  You will feel a lot better. 

Offline Ergel

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Re: "Ex-Hasidic Woman Marks Five Years Since She Shaved Her Head"
« Reply #317 on: November 16, 2013, 09:21:05 PM »
??? Please don't put words in my mouth. 
By saying that the ibn ezra believed something which is against the ikarei emunah as a support to other people not believing it-seems to me that someone could easily take that as it's ok not to believe in this ikar
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Offline Ergel

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Re: "Ex-Hasidic Woman Marks Five Years Since She Shaved Her Head"
« Reply #318 on: November 16, 2013, 09:22:03 PM »
I have no idea of what you are talking about and nor do I care.  I will repeat it for the last time: the pirush is not cryptic at all. Spend more time in the beis medrash and less time on DDF.  You will feel a lot better. 
You understood it on your own or Shapiro had to feed it to you?
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Offline Dan

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Re: "Ex-Hasidic Woman Marks Five Years Since She Shaved Her Head"
« Reply #319 on: November 16, 2013, 09:28:33 PM »
You do make some good points, you're definitely a smart man (I thought I'm the smartest person in satmar, now you busted my bubble).
Lol

Over the shabbos I asked my rav the reason of shaving, and he told me it s because of tznius. Its a geder they made so the hair should not be seen uncovered.
Is it really so difficult to put on a sheitel properly?

And if that's the real issue so get a short haircut so there's not even a chance of stray hairs coming out of a sheitel, why shaven?
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.