"Ex-Hasidic Woman Marks Five Years Since She Shaved Her Head"

[meshugener]

@sam
What type of chassidishe are you talking about? chasiddishe Catholics?

[good sam]

@sam
What type of chassidishe are you talking about? chasiddishe Catholics?

I'm not talking about the type who post on ddf 

[Satmar Lady]

Hello all of you! I've been here for a while but never took the time to register, but now I couldn't resist. I only read just a few of your comments, so I might re-post. Here's what I have to say, being there and doing that:
Of course it's about the mikveh. As a kallah I was told this was the main reason. In our local mikveh they have separate mikvaos for chassidishe women, because we want to avoid (other women's) stray hairs from clinging to the body. And yes, we are aware that this is a chumra which of course doesn't make it or break it, but as chasidim we do things lifnim mishuras hadin. that being said, tznius is also an important factor.
And this most definitely has nothing to do with Satmar per se, or the satmar "cult leader" for that matter! you should hear my Belz neighbor raving about the importance of this chumrah. Same goes for many other circles. the idea dates back to much earlier than the satmar rebbe. I did read up about it at one point, but now I can't seem to remember when it actually started. I might try to do some research.
I don't mind shaving in the least bit. taking care of my hair was such a job! if I get to show it, then that's a different story, but to shvitz for covered hair?
btw, I find all this cult talk really offensive. As a matter of fact, while satmar is indeed the strictest sect, it's the least cult-like from all chassidus. we don't worship the rebbe in the ways others do. while the rebbe was still alive people in the kehilla weren't afraid to voice objections to things the rebbe did, and the rebbe actually encouraged this! (there are stories to prove). think about this: Kiryas  Joel is a Satmar town, yet anyone can set up their own Shul there (and there are tens of them). we don't have only 1 single mode of dress - while others could only wear 1 type of hat, coat or peyos, satmar doesn't require that. the satmar rebbe just taught his followers to fulfill every mitzvah to its utmost. just like with tznius, satmar does its best when it comes to chessed (think of all the charity organizations it runs) and many other mitzvos.

[Ergel]

Thanks for the insight.
Just a thought-you could make your point without putting others down

[good sam]

Hello all of you! I've been here for a while but never took the time to register, but now I couldn't resist. I only read just a few of your comments, so I might re-post. Here's what I have to say, being there and doing that:
Of course it's about the mikveh. As a kallah I was told this was the main reason. In our local mikveh they have separate mikvaos for chassidishe women, because we want to avoid (other women's) stray hairs from clinging to the body. And yes, we are aware that this is a chumra which of course doesn't make it or break it, but as chasidim we do things lifnim mishuras hadin. that being said, tznius is also an important factor.
And this most definitely has nothing to do with Satmar per se, or the satmar "cult leader" for that matter! you should hear my Belz neighbor raving about the importance of this chumrah. Same goes for many other circles. the idea dates back to much earlier than the satmar rebbe. I did read up about it at one point, but now I can't seem to remember when it actually started. I might try to do some research.
I don't mind shaving in the least bit. taking care of my hair was such a job! if I get to show it, then that's a different story, but to shvitz for covered hair?
btw, I find all this cult talk really offensive. As a matter of fact, while satmar is indeed the strictest sect, it's the least cult-like from all chassidus. we don't worship the rebbe in the ways others do (and 1 particular sect comes to mind). while the rebbe was still alive people in the kehilla weren't afraid to voice objections to things the rebbe did, and the rebbe actually encouraged this! (there are stories to prove). think about this: Kiryas  Joel is a Satmar town, yet anyone can set up their own Shul there (and there are tens of them). we don't have only 1 single mode of dress - while others could only wear 1 type of hat, coat or peyos, satmar doesn't require that. the satmar rebbe just taught his followers to fulfill every mitzvah to its utmost. just like with tznius, satmar does its best when it comes to chessed (think of all the charity organizations it runs) and many other mitzvos.

Thanks

[good sam]

I'm not talking about the type who post on ddf 

ETA: I stand corrected.

[Satmar Lady]

Ergel - you're so right, I really tried!  but this   isn't the first time I came across the cult idea, and it's really getting to me. it's so hurtful!but i did go back  and removed a few words that might be offensive

[yehuda S]

Ergel - you're so right, I really tried!  but this   isn't the first time I came across the cult idea, and it's really getting to me. it's so hurtful!

The truth is that almost all frum Jews are part of what you'd call a cult because we are raised with a strict lifestyle that would impose severe penalties for not conforming. However the more strict the lifestyle, the more severe the penalties for non-conformity and therefore the more cult-like it is.

I doubt that any frum person here truly has free choice when it comes to lifestyle.

 

[YOSEF]

And do you actually wear wool tzitzes...............

Yeah....

[Dan]

Yeah....

I wear wool tzitzes as well, I hope the ellipses was self-understood.
If so you're holier than I can attest to be.

[jj1000]

Just a thought-you could make your point without putting others down

+1. To her defense she felt attacked in this thread and attacking others, showing how her beliefs are not the most extreme, is a natural defense.

I am thinking from her post that this minhag has similarities to keeping a beard. I have a beard because that is what my minhag is and also a halacha according to rabbeim I respect. But many people have told me they are so jealous that I don't shave my beard, because it is such a pain. Can I say this adds to my decision, well it doesn't much, but it is one way to justify it.

Similar is what meshug said and the poster above said, they do it because it is their minhag as well as it is much more convenient. When someone is raised with an expectation to be adhered to, they learn to deal with it in the best way possible. This is human psychology, when given two choices we are rarely happy either way, but when given one choice (even if it seems to be the worse of the two options) we naturally justify it to ourselves and find rational as to why it is really the best option. See here for more explanation on synthetic happiness we as people do all the time and is a very real thing

This last point is a big part of how every religion works and why people in one religion hold their beliefs normal while a member of a totally different religion feels their religion is the normal one, while these two religions couldn't be more different.

Whether it's keeping a beard, shaving your head, keeping kosher, or any other religious "restriction" the adherent accepts the command and hopefully learns to love it in a way that they are happy to keep it. One way to be able to do this while others ridicule that belief is justify it to yourself in ways only an adherent would feel. And to mock or make fun of that adherents reasoning for doing what they were raised with is silly as everyone does it consciously and subconsciously all the time.

Not saying open discussion about beliefs and religion is pointless, but this is something I think people should keep in mind. And I strongly recommend watching he video I linked to if you have the time.

As for the OP's article I didn't read it, but of course everyone has to have free will and forcing something on people is simply counterproductive. Because people can justify something to a point, if they don't believe in it anymore, you have to let them work things out themselves.

[yehuda S]

Also- if shaving is really about the mikvah, why does the girl only shave the morning after the mikvah?

[jj1000]

The truth is that almost all frum Jews are part of what you'd call a cult because we are raised with a strict lifestyle that would impose severe penalties for not conforming. However the more strict the lifestyle, the more severe the penalties for non-conformity and therefore the more cult-like it is.

I doubt that any frum person here truly has free choice when it comes to lifestyle.

 

Oh boy! This should be fun.

What is free choice?

(Are you saying the only person with free choice is a baby before he has understanding, as everyone else is influenced by others ideas?)

[DovtheBear]

The truth is that almost all frum Jews are part of what you'd call a cult because we are raised with a strict lifestyle that would impose severe penalties for not conforming. However the more strict the lifestyle, the more severe the penalties for non-conformity and therefore the more cult-like it is.

I doubt that any frum person here truly has free choice when it comes to lifestyle.

 

Oh boy! This should be fun.

What is free choice?

[notanonymous]

The truth is that almost all frum Jews are part of what you'd call a cult because we are raised with a strict lifestyle that would impose severe penalties for not conforming. However the more strict the lifestyle, the more severe the penalties for non-conformity and therefore the more cult-like it is.

I doubt that any frum person here truly has free choice when it comes to lifestyle.

Chas v'chalila.  Every Yid has free choice.  If we didn't, we would not have the option of olam haba.  Rather, we decide to make the proper choices (each according to his or her own mesorah / minhagim) and follow in the derech Hashem.

[notanonymous]

Also- if shaving is really about the mikvah, why does the girl only shave the morning after the mikvah?

After?  A woman shaves before the mikveh.

[good sam]

Also- if shaving is really about the mikvah, why does the girl only shave the morning after the mikvah?

She doesn't.  She shaves before.

[jj1000]

She doesn't.  She shaves before.

I can be totally off here, but does someone make sure the hair is short enough before she goes to mikva?

[Satmar Lady]

Yehuda: when it comes to a kallah being beautiful, it is customary to let go of chumros. a good chasidishe girl would never wear a white gown to an event either.

[yehuda S]

Oh boy! This should be fun.

What is free choice?

(Are you saying the only person with free choice is a baby before he has understanding as everyone else is influenced by other ideas?)

I'll try not to go overboard here.

On a basic level for this situation I'd say the ability to maintain healthy relationships with your family and community after choosing to leave and with others accepting the choice you've made.

On a more complex level, and this is something I wanted to point out. Read that posted article and you will see something that I think is very commonplace. She talks about being afraid that if she grows her hair, her kids will get be stricken with horrible diseases. I think that this type of psychological conditioning ( which is something we all frum ppl have to one degree or another) takes away our freedom of choice just as much if not more than the other things I've mentioned.

How does that sound?