"Ex-Hasidic Woman Marks Five Years Since She Shaved Her Head"

[PlatinumGuy]

I doubt that any frum person here truly has free choice when it comes to lifestyle.

Utter BS nobody is stopping me from becoming a nun tomorrow

[Dan]

Let's not make believe that in other communities there are less OTDs.
Satmar just has so so many people.

Maybe the difference is that in Satmar there's no room for self-expression.  If someone is ostracized for having hair that can cause people to give up the whole thing.

I think Chabad has an extremely low OTD percentage because for better or worse there's more room for self-expression.  There is no ostracization process except for perhaps when someone shaves his beard which is the symbolic final step for anyone who's been through the Chabad system.

[Dan]

I doubt that any frum person here truly has free choice when it comes to lifestyle.

Does someone not-frum have free choice?
Do you know what kind of pressure a BT goes through from family and friends when they want to become more religious.
And yet many of my best friends are BTs and they had the power to tell their parents that will not eat in their homes ever again.  It takes conviction but they made a choice.

Everyone here has free choice and we make that choice every second of every day.

[Dan]

You asked if people wear wool tzitis.
I responded "yeah...." to the tzitis, because I saw very little connection between the two.

................=Bshaas tashmish.

[good sam]

ok, so i know im late to this whole convo: but can we discuss one point, the foundation to the whole article... what the hell??? why do we all have to hear about how every chasidishe girl that has a bad feeling going off the derech.. its sickening already! i dont care that people do this, but why write about it? why does she feel that she has to spread her crap, its useless and it just gives everyone a bad feeling!

its sad that this is how we live our life. "i went to sara lawrence... im not frum look at me" does this sound normal?

secondly: i understand that if a woman feels that she wans to shave her head whats the diff to anyone else? esp if the husband is ok with it.

whether anyone wants to admit it or not, i wont generalize but a lot of people who follow a specific sect of Judaism is part of a cult, esp those who feel that if someone who does kihalacha is a bad perosn for not doing the chumra's, and to put someone down who does the chumras also needs more confidence in what there doing!

@Rots In case you didn't realize, it's actually quite fashionable to be an OTD ex-hasid.  I've heard that men and women from very trendy neighborhoods in NYC have been converting to Hasidic Judaism, just so they can leave the fold, write books, and go on talk shows.  Just telling you you what I heard man.

[good sam]

................=Bshaas tashmish.

lol, I did not get that.

[Ches]

שו"ת להורות נתן סימן ק"ה אות ג

ובזכרוני שלפני כשלשים וחמש שנה אמר לי זקן אחד, כמדומה שמו ר' רפאל כהן ז"ל, שהיה רגיל בילדותו בבית הרה"ק מהר"ש ז"ל בנו של הגה"ק צמח צדק הנ"ל, וראה שהרבנית אשתו של מהר"ש ז"ל היה שער ראשה מגולח

[Satmar Lady]

Without wanting to be mean, if you are so into that communie hy, they probably would not approve that you use the net.

we're good as far as the community is concerned. We run a small business from home (and I have no idea why I'm not working now) so I have the sites I need. My husband needs Dan's for his "side business"

[Ergel]

................=Bshaas tashmish.

I thought one is not allowed to wear any clothing?

[Dan]

I thought one is not allowed to wear any clothing?

Yea, that's what we learned also the same day.

Then kabblistically there's something about head covering and tzitzes.

Don't recall the answer

[churnbabychurn]

 

................=Bshaas tashmish.

 

[Menachem613]

Maybe the difference is that in Satmar there's no room for self-expression.  If someone is ostracized for having hair that can cause people to give up the whole thing.

I think Chabad has an extremely low OTD percentage because for better or worse there's more room for self-expression.  There is no ostracization process except for perhaps when someone shaves his beard which is the symbolic final step for anyone who's been through the Chabad system.

Very possibly true, but I doubt anyone has real numbers to compare.  More importantly, and even more difficult to quantify, are those that still wear the levush but are for intents and purposes OTD.

[AsherO]

................=Bshaas tashmish.

TMI IMHO.

More importantly, and even more difficult to quantify, are those that still wear the levush but are for intents and purposes OTD.

If you consider those people not-frum, do you consider someone who isn't observant but is g-d fearing to be frum? You can't have it both ways.

[Satmar Lady]

Maybe the difference is that in Satmar there's no room for self-expression.  If someone is ostracized for having hair that can cause people to give up the whole thing.

I think Chabad has an extremely low OTD percentage because for better or worse there's more room for self-expression.  There is no ostracization process except for perhaps when someone shaves his beard which is the symbolic final step for anyone who's been through the Chabad system.

 

You know what, I convinced myself that Chabad has an extremely high OTD rate, because their OTD's make even more noise - think FM, and the founder of Footsteps. Now I see I was wrong. So instead of being judgmental, will you also please believe me when I say Satmar has an extremely low OTD rate? I don't even know 1 graduate from our school who isn't shomer Shabbos (but of course their are those few who left the community for a more liberal environment).

[good sam]

we're good as far as the community is concerned. We run a small business from home (and I have no idea why I'm not working now) so I have the sites I need. My husband needs Dan's for his "side business"

ALOL

[Ergel]

If you consider those people not-frum, do you consider someone who isn't observant but is g-d fearing to be frum? You can't have it both ways.

Why not?

[Dan]

You know what, I convinced myself that Chabad has an extremely high OTD rate, because their OTD's make even more noise - think FM

FM was chabad??
I guess I don't really know any ex-Chabad guys who have written books while I've seen lots of these articles and books from ex-satmars.
But fair criticism and a good lesson to learn..

So instead of being judgmental, will you also please believe me when I say Satmar has an extremely low OTD rate? I don't even know 1 graduate from our school who isn't shomer Shabbos (but of course their are those few who left the community for a more liberal environment).

I don't mean to be judgmental, but I have seen the shocking facebook groups of ex-satmars, etc.
Frankly we'll never know the truth so it's silly to speculate.

[Dan]

TMI IMHO.

Agreed that's why I tried to leave it as ellipses

[good sam]

@ Satmar Lady  You say you know some people who grow their hair despite the Rebbe's insistence, and that you don't know of any punishment for those who don't live up to community standards.  How do respond to this girl's article, in which she describes how her son was kicked out of school, she and her husband were summoned before the vaad hatznius and threatened, and told they would be visited by a woman to inspect the length of her hair?

[AsherO]

Why not?

I guess you're right, though defining "frum" is quite murky, especially if your definition factors hashkafa into the mix (which makes drawing the line even murkier).

I mean, technically someone who believes that even one word of the Torah isn't of divine origin is a heretic (according to at least some Rishonim), but using that criteria these days there are "Orthodox" Rabbis who are heretics too...