Author Topic: Violent Curriculum in Kindergarten  (Read 13141 times)

Offline sky121

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: May 2011
  • Posts: 11513
  • Total likes: 168
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 12
    • View Profile
Re: Violent Curriculum in Kindergarten
« Reply #20 on: November 23, 2013, 11:26:36 PM »
You have a problem teaching kids about Shchita as well?

I don't think it's necessary and best taught at that age, no. Some of it's not bad to teach necessarily but doesn't mean it's the best use of time.  It's also the degree of depth stories are taught at where my personal concerns arise.
"Not all who wander are lost"

Offline Super Speed

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Jul 2013
  • Posts: 4849
  • Total likes: 50
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 4
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Programs: SPG Gold, Hilton Gold, Hyatt Platinum, Marriott Gold, Hertz Presidents Circle, Avis First, National Executive Elite, Sixt Platinum.
Re: Violent Curriculum in Kindergarten
« Reply #21 on: November 23, 2013, 11:30:09 PM »
Sure, show your three year old a cow being slaughtered. That should fix him/her good for a while.
I guess you never saw the Gemara that says "Yavo tehorim veyasku bitaharos"... Why not try Public Schools I don't think they teach this stuff. :P
I guess you felt this discussion was better then your last one and felt it didn't belong in JS. My personal opinion is that whichever board this ends up in the whole board should be changed to Just Crap.

Offline sky121

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: May 2011
  • Posts: 11513
  • Total likes: 168
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 12
    • View Profile
Re: Violent Curriculum in Kindergarten
« Reply #22 on: November 23, 2013, 11:34:49 PM »
I guess you never saw the Gemara that says "Yavo tehorim veyasku bitaharos"... Why not try Public Schools I don't think they teach this stuff. :P
I guess you felt this discussion was better then your last one and felt it didn't belong in JS. My personal opinion is that whichever board this ends up in the whole board should be changed to Just Crap.
Isn't that a bit extreme? Don't you see how teaching young children things too in depth for their age range might not be a great thing?
"Not all who wander are lost"

Offline Super Speed

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Jul 2013
  • Posts: 4849
  • Total likes: 50
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 4
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Programs: SPG Gold, Hilton Gold, Hyatt Platinum, Marriott Gold, Hertz Presidents Circle, Avis First, National Executive Elite, Sixt Platinum.
Re: Violent Curriculum in Kindergarten
« Reply #23 on: November 23, 2013, 11:41:17 PM »
Isn't that a bit extreme? Don't you see how teaching young children things too in depth for their age range might not be a great thing?
I'm not much of a Mechanech as I don't have kids of my own yet. Firstly I wouldn't question something which has been past down with a Mesorah from at least the days of the Gaon. Secondly the Torah is not only for adults and the whole torah can be taught to any child at any age on his level.


Offline yehuda S

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite + Lifetime Gold Elite
  • ******
  • Join Date: Jul 2011
  • Posts: 764
  • Total likes: 11
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
    • View Profile
Re: Violent Curriculum in Kindergarten
« Reply #24 on: November 23, 2013, 11:42:29 PM »
Isn't that a bit extreme? Don't you see how teaching young children things too in depth for their age range might not be a great thing?
Apparently not - best to not engage.
Work is what you do between vacations.

Offline meshugener

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Feb 2012
  • Posts: 6887
  • Total likes: 62
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 4
  • Gender: Female
    • View Profile
  • Location: DDF
  • Programs: Amex Platinum, Chase Freedom 10X10 Exclusives, Avis Presidents Club, National Executive, Hertz 5 Star, Hilton Gold, Accor Platinum, Hyatt Platinum, Marriott Silver, SPG Gold, Club Carlson Gold
Re: Violent Curriculum in Kindergarten
« Reply #25 on: November 23, 2013, 11:43:58 PM »
The parsho has been learned with kids for generations and I don't see the Jewish kids growing up more violent than public school kids where the 'don't' teach those violence.

I think it makes sense to learn young kids to hate evil.
Love me or hate me. I still love you.

Offline Ergel

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jun 2010
  • Posts: 12818
  • Total likes: 905
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 3
    • View Profile
Re: Violent Curriculum in Kindergarten
« Reply #26 on: November 23, 2013, 11:46:37 PM »
The parsho has been learned with kids for generations and I don't see the Jewish kids growing up more violent than public school kids where the 'don't' teach those violence.

I think it makes sense to teach young kids to hate evil.
Do you teach your kids the maaseh of yehuda and tamar? I tend to skip that stuff for now. Although we do teach Yosef and eishes potifar and just say she wanted to marry Yosef instead of sleep with
Life isn't about checking the boxes. Nobody cares.

Offline Baruch

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Jan 2013
  • Posts: 2604
  • Total likes: 335
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 2
    • View Profile
Re: Violent Curriculum in Kindergarten
« Reply #27 on: November 23, 2013, 11:49:15 PM »
My 4 year old's teacher taught that the brothers put Yosef in a pit, she never mentioned the killing part.
She didn't even teach about Avrohom's Yitchak's Sarah's or Rachel's death.
She doesn't talk about death at all.
When my son asks me where Rav Moshe Feinstien is? (we have a pic of him on my wall). I say - I don't know. I don't think a 4 year old has to know about death, and for sure not murder.
Call me over protective.

Offline yehuda S

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite + Lifetime Gold Elite
  • ******
  • Join Date: Jul 2011
  • Posts: 764
  • Total likes: 11
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
    • View Profile
Re: Violent Curriculum in Kindergarten
« Reply #28 on: November 23, 2013, 11:50:05 PM »
Do you teach your kids the maaseh of yehuda and tamar? I tend to skip that stuff for now. Although we do teach Yosef and eishes potifar and just say she wanted to marry Yosef instead of sleep with
How about teaching them what eishes potifar really wanted. Or for that matter ma'aseh sh'chem.    ::)
Work is what you do between vacations.

Offline elikay

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: May 2010
  • Posts: 5400
  • Total likes: 38
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 2
    • View Profile
Re: Violent Curriculum in Kindergarten
« Reply #29 on: November 23, 2013, 11:52:04 PM »
My four year old said its good that Yehudis chopped off the general's head while he was sleeping... cuz he would have been very angry if he was up. :D

Offline meshugener

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Feb 2012
  • Posts: 6887
  • Total likes: 62
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 4
  • Gender: Female
    • View Profile
  • Location: DDF
  • Programs: Amex Platinum, Chase Freedom 10X10 Exclusives, Avis Presidents Club, National Executive, Hertz 5 Star, Hilton Gold, Accor Platinum, Hyatt Platinum, Marriott Silver, SPG Gold, Club Carlson Gold
Re: Violent Curriculum in Kindergarten
« Reply #30 on: November 23, 2013, 11:52:29 PM »
@baruch, Yes, you are over protective.

@ergel, there's a difference between znus and murder, IMHO.
Love me or hate me. I still love you.

Offline elikay

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: May 2010
  • Posts: 5400
  • Total likes: 38
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 2
    • View Profile
Re: Violent Curriculum in Kindergarten
« Reply #31 on: November 23, 2013, 11:52:38 PM »
How about teaching them what eishes potifar really wanted. Or for that matter ma'aseh sh'chem.    ::)
Like I said.... G.A.L.

Offline Ergel

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jun 2010
  • Posts: 12818
  • Total likes: 905
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 3
    • View Profile
Re: Violent Curriculum in Kindergarten
« Reply #32 on: November 23, 2013, 11:54:11 PM »
My 4 year old's teacher taught that the brothers put Yosef in a pit, she never mentioned the killing part.
She didn't even teach about Avrohom's Yitchak's Sarah's or Rachel's death.
She doesn't talk about death at all.
When my son asks me where Rav Moshe Feinstien is? (we have a pic of him on my wall). I say - I don't know. I don't think a 4 year old has to know about death, and for sure not murder.
Call me over protective.
My kid's teacher is the same way and I totally disagree. We tell her about all the people that died. I think it's ridiculous to be so afraid to tell kids that someone died. It's part of life.
Life isn't about checking the boxes. Nobody cares.

Offline Super Speed

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Jul 2013
  • Posts: 4849
  • Total likes: 50
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 4
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Programs: SPG Gold, Hilton Gold, Hyatt Platinum, Marriott Gold, Hertz Presidents Circle, Avis First, National Executive Elite, Sixt Platinum.
Re: Violent Curriculum in Kindergarten
« Reply #33 on: November 23, 2013, 11:54:54 PM »
My kid's teacher is the same way and I totally disagree. We tell her about all the people that died. I think it's ridiculous to be so afraid to tell kids that someone died. It's part of life.
+1


Offline Ergel

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jun 2010
  • Posts: 12818
  • Total likes: 905
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 3
    • View Profile
Re: Violent Curriculum in Kindergarten
« Reply #34 on: November 23, 2013, 11:55:24 PM »
@baruch, Yes, you are over protective.

@ergel, there's a difference between znus and murder, IMHO.
agreed. I don't leave out that Esav wanted to kill Yaakov and always point out that that is not very nice and esav is a rasha
Life isn't about checking the boxes. Nobody cares.

Offline Baruch

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Jan 2013
  • Posts: 2604
  • Total likes: 335
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 2
    • View Profile
Re: Violent Curriculum in Kindergarten
« Reply #35 on: November 24, 2013, 12:07:20 AM »
My kid's teacher is the same way and I totally disagree. We tell her about all the people that died. I think it's ridiculous to be so afraid to tell kids that someone died. It's part of life.
I don't think your way is crazy.
I just don't feel my son needs to know about death. For what? Let him live in la la land for a few years. He'll have a long life (iy"h, ad meah ve'esrim) to learn about the hardships of life.

Offline Ergel

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jun 2010
  • Posts: 12818
  • Total likes: 905
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 3
    • View Profile
Re: Violent Curriculum in Kindergarten
« Reply #36 on: November 24, 2013, 12:14:10 AM »
I don't think your way is crazy.
I just don't feel my son needs to know about death. For what? Let him live in la la land for a few years. He'll have a long life (iy"h, ad meah ve'esrim) to learn about the hardships of life.
But death isn't really a bad thing for the mes-just for those around in him. Why have it him later and not just be a regular part of life.
Saying I don't now where rav moshe is just seems strange to me
Life isn't about checking the boxes. Nobody cares.

Offline churnbabychurn

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Jul 2012
  • Posts: 7355
  • Total likes: 301
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
  • Location: Lakewood
Re: Violent Curriculum in Kindergarten
« Reply #37 on: November 24, 2013, 12:24:40 AM »
I don't think your way is crazy.
I just don't feel my son needs to know about death. For what? Let him live in la la land for a few years. He'll have a long life (iy"h, ad meah ve'esrim) to learn about the hardships of life.
from where and when will your child learn about sechar and onesh? How do you plan to convey the concept of a temporary world? These things must be ingrained. Lala land is not for yidden

Offline churnbabychurn

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Jul 2012
  • Posts: 7355
  • Total likes: 301
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
  • Location: Lakewood
Re: Violent Curriculum in Kindergarten
« Reply #38 on: November 24, 2013, 12:28:24 AM »
But death isn't really a bad thing for the mes-just for those around in him. Why have it him later and not just be a regular part of life.
Saying I don't now where rav moshe is just seems strange to me
death is what life is all about!

Offline Baruch

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Jan 2013
  • Posts: 2604
  • Total likes: 335
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 2
    • View Profile
Re: Violent Curriculum in Kindergarten
« Reply #39 on: November 24, 2013, 12:41:24 AM »
death is what life is all about!
Not for a 4 year old IMHO. He can understand about schar and onesh, even Olam Haba, without knowing that one day ppl die.
I admit my son is the sensitive type, and if he would be more macho, I might have toldl him about death.
Maybe that's the whole difference between our approaches. My son would be shaken up and disturbed to hear about death. In a year or less he may toughen up enough to hear about it.

Like Shlomo Hamelech said - Chanoch Lenaar al pi darko.