Author Topic: Liqour/Whiskey/Bourbon Master Thread  (Read 343456 times)

Offline Emkay

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Re: Liqour/Whiskey/Bourbon Master Thread
« Reply #760 on: February 17, 2017, 06:00:21 AM »
Pinch of salt needed with that CRC liquor list. There are a huge amount of Scotch malts on there which supposedly are not recommended, every single one of which are allowed by the KLBD. I've seen many a rabbi drink these and/or have them served at kiddushes, shul whisky tastings etc. I would sooner trust the KLBD who are far closer to the 'action' on malt whisky, than the CRC that are an entire ocean apart!
I dont know which specific ones you are referring to nor does it matter to me. And while you may be correct, the 2 reasons you gave are absolutely meaningless.

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Re: Liqour/Whiskey/Bourbon Master Thread
« Reply #761 on: February 17, 2017, 06:43:39 AM »
Why?
apparently, the Canadians are adding wine to their whiskey. Info is actually COR based

Offline kopite1

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Re: Liqour/Whiskey/Bourbon Master Thread
« Reply #762 on: February 17, 2017, 07:14:12 AM »
I dont know which specific ones you are referring to nor does it matter to me. And while you may be correct, the 2 reasons you gave are absolutely meaningless.

Referring to pretty much every single one on the 'Not Recommended' list. Any why are the reasons meaningless? No need for such an aggressive approach.

Offline Emkay

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Re: Liqour/Whiskey/Bourbon Master Thread
« Reply #763 on: February 17, 2017, 07:40:27 AM »
Referring to pretty much every single one on the 'Not Recommended' list. Any why are the reasons meaningless? No need for such an aggressive approach.
It wasn't intended to be aggressive.
1) The fact that KLBD is " closer" means little in the 21st century.
2) The fact that you saw it served at many kiddushim or saw rabbis drink it also means nothing, doesnt mean they are aware. I also find it funny that you discredited the CRC because they aren't as involved according to you as KLBD yet you bring a random shul serving it as proof that it's good.

Offline Menachem613

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Re: Liqour/Whiskey/Bourbon Master Thread
« Reply #764 on: February 17, 2017, 07:50:25 AM »
apparently, the Canadians are adding wine to their whiskey. Info is actually COR based

Isn't wine butul B'shaish?

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Re: Liqour/Whiskey/Bourbon Master Thread
« Reply #765 on: February 17, 2017, 08:25:43 AM »
Isn't wine butul B'shaish?
machlokes but lehalacha yes at least by yayin in other things (not yayin byayin) in this case there may be up to 30% other items mixed in.

Offline kopite1

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Re: Liqour/Whiskey/Bourbon Master Thread
« Reply #766 on: February 17, 2017, 08:32:49 AM »
It wasn't intended to be aggressive.
1) The fact that KLBD is " closer" means little in the 21st century.
2) The fact that you saw it served at many kiddushim or saw rabbis drink it also means nothing, doesnt mean they are aware. I also find it funny that you discredited the CRC because they aren't as involved according to you as KLBD yet you bring a random shul serving it as proof that it's good.

All scotch whisky (SM or blended) is regulated by Scottish law that no colourings, additives etc can be added. Virtually every single whisky that CRC don't recommend are allowed without question by KLBD as they are not matured in sherry casks etc. See link:

http://www.kosher.org.uk/article/are-all-whiskies-kosher

Hence I find it puzzling that CRC 'don't recommend' so many of those whiskies eg Abelour, Glengoyne etc. No justifiable reason not to do so.

Offline kopite1

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Re: Liqour/Whiskey/Bourbon Master Thread
« Reply #767 on: February 17, 2017, 08:35:06 AM »
It wasn't intended to be aggressive.
1) The fact that KLBD is " closer" means little in the 21st century.
2) The fact that you saw it served at many kiddushim or saw rabbis drink it also means nothing, doesnt mean they are aware. I also find it funny that you discredited the CRC because they aren't as involved according to you as KLBD yet you bring a random shul serving it as proof that it's good.

Your last point about rabbonim being unaware doesn't hold either, these whiskies are sold in shops (and drunk) in GG/Stamford Hill/Hendon etc by all sections of the kehilla. So to say people aren't aware is completely untrue.

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Re: Liqour/Whiskey/Bourbon Master Thread
« Reply #768 on: February 17, 2017, 08:37:54 AM »
Your last point about rabbonim being unaware doesn't hold either, these whiskies are sold in shops (and drunk) in GG/Stamford Hill/Hendon etc by all sections of the kehilla. So to say people aren't aware is completely untrue.
I disagree. I've seen Cognac being sold in heimeshe liquor stores bec " vus ken zein shlecht mit bronfen"

Offline kopite1

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Re: Liqour/Whiskey/Bourbon Master Thread
« Reply #769 on: February 17, 2017, 08:46:32 AM »
I disagree. I've seen Cognac being sold in heimeshe liquor stores bec " vus ken zein shlecht mit bronfen"

Cognac is a different story altogether. Made with grapes so obvious kashrut implications.

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Re: Liqour/Whiskey/Bourbon Master Thread
« Reply #770 on: February 17, 2017, 08:47:43 AM »
Cognac is a different story altogether. Made with grapes so obvious kashrut implications.
and yet people are oblivious...

Offline Emkay

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Re: Liqour/Whiskey/Bourbon Master Thread
« Reply #771 on: February 17, 2017, 08:50:46 AM »
Your last point about rabbonim being unaware doesn't hold either, these whiskies are sold in shops (and drunk) in GG/Stamford Hill/Hendon etc by all sections of the kehilla. So to say people aren't aware is completely untrue.
It doesn't matter if half the world does it. I'm not saying you aren't correct about the Kashrus status though saying that "everybody" says its ok without a definitive and knowledgeable source doesnt hold much water. One big example I can think if is the WAJ. Yes, most Jews eat there, even ones that wouldnt eat rabbanut mehadrin let alone reg rabbanut. If you ask people and track the source it's always someone hearing from someone else without a platform to stand on. I have been looking since it opened for a respected rav in Israel who knows Kashrus here and who doesnt hold of Rabbanut who will tell you that WAJ is OK. While I'm sure its kosher in the highest regard, not always is the fact that everyone does something proof that its ok.

Offline aygart

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Re: Liqour/Whiskey/Bourbon Master Thread
« Reply #772 on: February 17, 2017, 09:02:44 AM »
It doesn't matter if half the world does it. I'm not saying you aren't correct about the Kashrus status though saying that "everybody" says its ok without a definitive and knowledgeable source doesnt hold much water. One big example I can think if is the WAJ. Yes, most Jews eat there, even ones that wouldnt eat rabbanut mehadrin let alone reg rabbanut. If you ask people and track the source it's always someone hearing from someone else without a platform to stand on. I have been looking since it opened for a respected rav in Israel who knows Kashrus here and who doesnt hold of Rabbanut who will tell you that WAJ is OK. While I'm sure its kosher in the highest regard, not always is the fact that everyone does something proof that its ok.
+1 (not about WAJ-I have no knowledge about that)
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Offline kopite1

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Re: Liqour/Whiskey/Bourbon Master Thread
« Reply #773 on: February 17, 2017, 09:08:48 AM »
It doesn't matter if half the world does it. I'm not saying you aren't correct about the Kashrus status though saying that "everybody" says its ok without a definitive and knowledgeable source doesnt hold much water. One big example I can think if is the WAJ. Yes, most Jews eat there, even ones that wouldnt eat rabbanut mehadrin let alone reg rabbanut. If you ask people and track the source it's always someone hearing from someone else without a platform to stand on. I have been looking since it opened for a respected rav in Israel who knows Kashrus here and who doesnt hold of Rabbanut who will tell you that WAJ is OK. While I'm sure its kosher in the highest regard, not always is the fact that everyone does something proof that its ok.

I admittedly have no idea who or what WAJ is or where it is. However, in terms of a definitive and knowledgable source regarding whisky, you won't find much better than the KLBD, hence my surprise and confusion as to why CRC take such a stance on perfectly acceptable malt whisky.

Offline aygart

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Re: Liqour/Whiskey/Bourbon Master Thread
« Reply #774 on: February 17, 2017, 09:10:41 AM »
I admittedly have no idea who or what WAJ is or where it is. However, in terms of a definitive and knowledgable source regarding whisky, you won't find much better than the KLBD, hence my surprise and confusion as to why CRC take such a stance on perfectly acceptable malt whisky.
WAJ=Waldorf Astoria Jerusalem

Where did KLBD contradict CRC? I do not see where they permitted any CRC lists as not recommended. Quite the opposite. THey DO NOT recommend Abelour since it mentions Sherry Casks.
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Offline Emkay

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Re: Liqour/Whiskey/Bourbon Master Thread
« Reply #775 on: February 17, 2017, 09:12:04 AM »


I admittedly have no idea who or what WAJ is or where it is. However, in terms of a definitive and knowledgable source regarding whisky, you won't find much better than the KLBD, hence my surprise and confusion as to why CRC take such a stance on perfectly acceptable malt whisky.

Walford Astoria Jerusalem, but thats not the point.
Why dont you contact the CRC and ask them?

Offline kopite1

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Re: Liqour/Whiskey/Bourbon Master Thread
« Reply #776 on: February 17, 2017, 09:22:16 AM »

Walford Astoria Jerusalem, but thats not the point.
Why dont you contact the CRC and ask them?

No reason to contact them because the main kashrut authority in my country (and one of the best in the world) rules that all these whiskies are fine.

Offline Emkay

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Re: Liqour/Whiskey/Bourbon Master Thread
« Reply #777 on: February 17, 2017, 09:24:41 AM »
No reason to contact them because the main kashrut authority in my country (and one of the best in the world) rules that all these whiskies are fine.
You don't have to contact them but before saying to "take their word with a pinch of salt", "other organizations are more knowledgeable", and " confusion", you prob should find out their reason first.

Offline kopite1

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Re: Liqour/Whiskey/Bourbon Master Thread
« Reply #778 on: February 17, 2017, 09:24:49 AM »
WAJ=Waldorf Astoria Jerusalem

Where did KLBD contradict CRC? I do not see where they permitted any CRC lists as not recommended. Quite the opposite. THey DO NOT recommend Abelour since it mentions Sherry Casks.

Abelour 12, 16 and A'bunadh are not matured in sherry casks. I have the 12 and A'bunadh in my cupboard. All 3 are permitted by KLBD.

This argument is going in circles. Seems the CRC are being overly stringent on their market for no undue reason.

Offline aygart

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Re: Liqour/Whiskey/Bourbon Master Thread
« Reply #779 on: February 17, 2017, 09:30:14 AM »
Abelour 12, 16 and A'bunadh are not matured in sherry casks. I have the 12 and A'bunadh in my cupboard. All 3 are permitted by KLBD.

This argument is going in circles. Seems the CRC are being overly stringent on their market for no undue reason.
http://www.aberlour.com/us/range/aberlour-16/
http://www.aberlour.com/us/range/aberlour-12/
With the depth and complexity that comes from being matured for 16 years in a combination of first fill oak Bourbon casks and the finest Sherry butts, this expression’s warm fruity notes are enriched by an engagingly spicy sweetness.

The 12 year-old expression is a fine example of how the distinctively crisp, citrus character of Aberlour’s raw spirit is deftly softened by double cask maturation. Traditional oak and seasoned Sherry butts are both used to great effect, as the mellowed spirits within are combined to deliver a subtly balanced flavour.
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