Author Topic: Liqour/Whiskey/Bourbon Master Thread  (Read 244739 times)

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Re: Liqour/Whiskey/Bourbon Master Thread
« Reply #1400 on: August 04, 2021, 01:44:56 PM »
I would think someone being described as kashrus savvy would tell you he would value reality over perception.

I'm any case, you can count me in as interested. Do you know of anyyhing in particular that would make the OUs supervision on wines sub par or are you stam saying "if ur frum don't eat ou".
Well considering that OU Shechita doesn't exist
Feelings don't care about your facts

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Re: Liqour/Whiskey/Bourbon Master Thread
« Reply #1401 on: August 04, 2021, 02:24:24 PM »
Well considering that OU Shechita doesn't exist
Really?
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Re: Liqour/Whiskey/Bourbon Master Thread
« Reply #1402 on: August 04, 2021, 02:40:55 PM »
Really?
Every single one has another supervision unless something changed
Feelings don't care about your facts

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Re: Liqour/Whiskey/Bourbon Master Thread
« Reply #1403 on: August 04, 2021, 02:42:32 PM »
Every single one has another supervision unless something changed
And they are not in the driver's seat anywhere? Interesting.
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Re: Liqour/Whiskey/Bourbon Master Thread
« Reply #1404 on: August 04, 2021, 08:28:12 PM »
And they are not in the driver's seat anywhere? Interesting.
Shechita is basically the domain of the head mashgiach of the plant who needs to be approved by all certifications
Feelings don't care about your facts

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Re: Liqour/Whiskey/Bourbon Master Thread
« Reply #1405 on: August 04, 2021, 08:31:16 PM »
Every single one has another supervision unless something changed
What about spring valley products which only have an OU?

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Re: Liqour/Whiskey/Bourbon Master Thread
« Reply #1406 on: August 04, 2021, 08:34:39 PM »
What about spring valley products which only have an OU?
That is not a Shechita
Feelings don't care about your facts

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Re: Liqour/Whiskey/Bourbon Master Thread
« Reply #1407 on: August 04, 2021, 08:35:22 PM »
That is not a Shechita
So the meat in that was shechted under a other supervision as well?

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Re: Liqour/Whiskey/Bourbon Master Thread
« Reply #1408 on: August 04, 2021, 08:36:34 PM »
So the meat in that was shechted under a other supervision as well?
AFAIK that is correct
Feelings don't care about your facts

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Re: Liqour/Whiskey/Bourbon Master Thread
« Reply #1409 on: August 04, 2021, 08:43:23 PM »
Every single one has another supervision unless something changed
David Elliot. Although it does also have B"D of Crown Heights, to people outside the lubavitch community it would classify as an OU shecihtah 

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Re: Liqour/Whiskey/Bourbon Master Thread
« Reply #1410 on: August 04, 2021, 11:58:08 PM »
I would think someone being described as kashrus savvy would tell you he would value reality over perception.

I'm any case, you can count me in as interested. Do you know of anyyhing in particular that would make the OUs supervision on wines sub par or are you stam saying "if ur frum don't eat ou".
Wine and shechita require a much higher level of supervision and involve much more complicated sheilos than potato chips ketchup or pickles. They also require constant supervision. While many would trust the ou for basic hashgacha they would not want to rely on them for more complicated products. (catering and restaurants might go into this category as well).

Regarding wine and grape juice the halacha is if a goy touches the wine before it is cooked it is not kosher. This present great difficulties or necessitates relying on halachic workarounds which may not be agreed upon by all. Obviously if it an exclusively jewish operation this isn't an issue but with many of the ou certified products that is not the case.

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Re: Liqour/Whiskey/Bourbon Master Thread
« Reply #1411 on: August 05, 2021, 12:01:03 AM »
Birdsboro Kosher now also has an OU
["-"]

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Re: Liqour/Whiskey/Bourbon Master Thread
« Reply #1412 on: August 05, 2021, 03:49:15 AM »
Wine and shechita require a much higher level of supervision and involve much more complicated sheilos than potato chips ketchup or pickles. They also require constant supervision. While many would trust the ou for basic hashgacha they would not want to rely on them for more complicated products. (catering and restaurants might go into this category as well).

Regarding wine and grape juice the halacha is if a goy touches the wine before it is cooked it is not kosher. This present great difficulties or necessitates relying on halachic workarounds which may not be agreed upon by all. Obviously if it an exclusively jewish operation this isn't an issue but with many of the ou certified products that is not the case.
Explain why wine is so complex. If an operation is minimally organized it shouldn't be complicated, especially in Israel, where most of OU certified wine is from.
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Re: Liqour/Whiskey/Bourbon Master Thread
« Reply #1413 on: August 05, 2021, 03:41:26 PM »
Wine and shechita require a much higher level of supervision and involve much more complicated sheilos than potato chips ketchup or pickles. They also require constant supervision. While many would trust the ou for basic hashgacha they would not want to rely on them for more complicated products. (catering and restaurants might go into this category as well).

Regarding wine and grape juice the halacha is if a goy touches the wine before it is cooked it is not kosher. This present great difficulties or necessitates relying on halachic workarounds which may not be agreed upon by all. Obviously if it an exclusively jewish operation this isn't an issue but with many of the ou certified products that is not the case.

This sounds very much like perception over reality. Is a wine production where you have numerous tmidis and may even be 100% supervised and then seal it up until bottling really more complicated than a plant that can have numerous ingredients of varying levels of kashrus being used on a daily basis? The typical feeling though, is that the more complex of a system that is needed the more important it is to have a large organized supervision like the OU. The shortcoming is that there may be some kulos that they rely on that others will not. This absolutely can be the case on a product by product basis.
Feelings don't care about your facts

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The chiddush of DDF is the way Dan Deals with all us crazies 🤪

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Re: Liqour/Whiskey/Bourbon Master Thread
« Reply #1415 on: August 05, 2021, 06:24:44 PM »
This sounds very much like perception over reality. Is a wine production where you have numerous tmidis and may even be 100% supervised and then seal it up until bottling really more complicated than a plant that can have numerous ingredients of varying levels of kashrus being used on a daily basis?

numerous tmidis and 100% supervised sounds complicated to me. plants with numerous ingredients are not that complicated to supervise if you have a proper system in place. Ensuring no goy touches anything from pressing till bottling (or more accurately cooking/pasteurizing) is complicated. That's besides the kulos that may be relied upon.

This is the reality not perception.

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Re: Liqour/Whiskey/Bourbon Master Thread
« Reply #1416 on: August 05, 2021, 06:26:26 PM »

numerous tmidis and 100% supervised sounds complicated to me. plants with numerous ingredients are not that complicated to supervise if you have a proper system in place. Ensuring no goy touches anything from pressing till bottling (or more accurately cooking/pasteurizing) is complicated. That's besides the kulos that may be relied upon.

This is the reality not perception.
Numerous tmidis is the simplest possible solution for any supervision
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline AsherO

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Re: Liqour/Whiskey/Bourbon Master Thread
« Reply #1417 on: August 05, 2021, 07:07:48 PM »
This is the reality not perception.

The difference between what you call reality and what @aygart calls perception might be semantics.

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Re: Liqour/Whiskey/Bourbon Master Thread
« Reply #1418 on: August 05, 2021, 07:43:27 PM »

numerous tmidis and 100% supervised sounds complicated to me. plants with numerous ingredients are not that complicated to supervise if you have a proper system in place. Ensuring no goy touches anything from pressing till bottling (or more accurately cooking/pasteurizing) is complicated. That's besides the kulos that may be relied upon.

This is the reality not perception.
Again, can you point to specific Kula that OU relies upon?
Of course it’s complicated, but what makes you say the OU relies on Kulos in this case?
Sounds like you’re saying “the OU is not a heimish hecsher so they must be using kilos”.

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Re: Liqour/Whiskey/Bourbon Master Thread
« Reply #1419 on: August 05, 2021, 07:53:00 PM »
Again, can you point to specific Kula that OU relies upon?
Of course it’s complicated, but what makes you say the OU relies on Kulos in this case?
Sounds like you’re saying “the OU is not a heimish hecsher so they must be using kilos”.
My main concern is the level of supervision necessary not the kulos that may be used. As far as what kulos, find out what they are doing in regard to considering the products mevushal.