Author Topic: any accountants out there that i can ask a question?  (Read 490822 times)

Offline yitzf

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Re: any accountants out there that i can ask a question?
« Reply #240 on: April 08, 2014, 11:25:09 AM »
-100. Spoke to many people who went to accountants in Lakewood. Never heard that from anyone.

+1

Offline avrumy

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Re: any accountants out there that i can ask a question?
« Reply #241 on: April 08, 2014, 12:46:17 PM »
This has been a hot topic over the last 10 years between big accountants, lawyers and the agudah. I believe the agudah holds even small night kolilim are taxable while a majority of accountants and lawyers hold only if there is government funding. Night kollilim generally do not have government funding for example. They hold its a non taxable scholarship.

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: any accountants out there that i can ask a question?
« Reply #242 on: April 08, 2014, 01:00:55 PM »
What's the machlokes? It's all spelled out in Pub 970 very clearly.

http://www.irs.gov/publications/p970/ch01.html

Why on earth would it make a difference if the source of the funds is governmental or not?

Offline Menachem613

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Re: any accountants out there that i can ask a question?
« Reply #243 on: April 08, 2014, 01:05:08 PM »

This has been a hot topic over the last 10 years between big accountants, lawyers and the agudah. I believe the agudah holds even small night kolilim are taxable while a majority of accountants and lawyers hold only if there is government funding. Night kollilim generally do not have government funding for example. They hold its a non taxable scholarship.

Maybe they should go for a revenue ruling.

Offline avrumy

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Re: any accountants out there that i can ask a question?
« Reply #244 on: April 08, 2014, 01:26:11 PM »
What's the machlokes? It's all spelled out in Pub 970 very clearly.

http://www.irs.gov/publications/p970/ch01.html

Why on earth would it make a difference if the source of the funds is governmental or not?
I clearly see the dif bet someone who is entry level and has experience.

Offline MarkS

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Re: any accountants out there that i can ask a question?
« Reply #245 on: April 08, 2014, 01:26:22 PM »
What's the machlokes? It's all spelled out in Pub 970 very clearly.

http://www.irs.gov/publications/p970/ch01.html

Why on earth would it make a difference if the source of the funds is governmental or not?
From P970: A scholarship or fellowship is tax free only to the extent:

It does not exceed your expenses;

A kolel doesn't charge tuition making the entire Kollel check above expenses.

Also, I think you need to be working toward a degree. While BMG is working toward a degree (at least until you're granted a masters) many kollelim aren't.

Offline avrumy

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Re: any accountants out there that i can ask a question?
« Reply #246 on: April 08, 2014, 01:34:07 PM »
From P970: A scholarship or fellowship is tax free only to the extent:

It does not exceed your expenses;

A kolel doesn't charge tuition making the entire Kollel check above expenses.

Also, I think you need to be working toward a degree. While BMG is working toward a degree (at least until you're granted a masters) many kollelim aren't.
If you buy seforim that can go against the kolel checks income. for example bmg offers life insurance and takes it off your checks. that can also be excluded.  you guys are quoting general rules. there r exceptions and loopholes to everything. Its assur to eat on yom kippur. There r also exceptions where one is allowed to eat. same here.

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: any accountants out there that i can ask a question?
« Reply #247 on: April 08, 2014, 01:38:05 PM »
If you buy seforim that can go against the kolel checks income. for example bmg offers life insurance and takes it off your checks. that can also be excluded.  you guys are quoting general rules. there r exceptions and loopholes to everything. Its assur to eat on yom kippur. There r also exceptions where one is allowed to eat. same here.
Yes books, supplies and tuition. Not living expenses.

Offline MarkS

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Re: any accountants out there that i can ask a question?
« Reply #248 on: April 08, 2014, 01:40:35 PM »
Yes I'm sure there are exceptions to everything. Just want to point out that saying that Kollel checks are tax free because of this publication is very misleading.

I doubt most Kollel guys spend anything near the amount of their kollel check on Seforim (and not because their check is so big  :)  )

Offline avrumy

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Re: any accountants out there that i can ask a question?
« Reply #249 on: April 08, 2014, 01:58:28 PM »
Yes I'm sure there are exceptions to everything. Just want to point out that saying that Kollel checks are tax free because of this publication is very misleading.

I doubt most Kollel guys spend anything near the amount of their kollel check on Seforim (and not because their check is so big  :)  )
noone ever said their tax free. Read the whole conversation.

Offline avrumy

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Re: any accountants out there that i can ask a question?
« Reply #250 on: April 08, 2014, 01:59:12 PM »
Yes books, supplies and tuition. Not living expenses.
correct. I did not say living expenses are included.

Offline MarkS

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Re: any accountants out there that i can ask a question?
« Reply #251 on: April 08, 2014, 02:03:59 PM »
noone ever said their tax free. Read the whole conversation.
Generally the rule is if the kolel gets goverment funding which bmg does then the kolel checks are taxable. They do not count as far as a gain for the eic but rather a loss. Meaning it can only do harm but that's life.
It was implied here that for a non-gov funded kollel it's tax free

Offline avrumy

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Re: any accountants out there that i can ask a question?
« Reply #252 on: April 08, 2014, 02:18:52 PM »
It was implied here that for a non-gov funded kollel it's tax free
According to he accountants who have experience in this field (lakewood) thats how they deal with it.

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: any accountants out there that i can ask a question?
« Reply #253 on: April 08, 2014, 02:28:21 PM »
According to he accountants who have experience in this field (lakewood) thats how they deal with it.
Experience has nothing to do with this. The rules for scholarships and stipends for graduate students are from the more straight forward in the regs.
You have yet to explain one reasonable reason why scholarships not used for tuition, books or supplies are not taxable.
Maybe one of the "Major Lakewood Accountants" can enlighten us as to why a kollel check is any different?

Offline avrumy

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Re: any accountants out there that i can ask a question?
« Reply #254 on: April 08, 2014, 02:34:11 PM »
Experience has nothing to do with this. The rules for scholarships and stipends for graduate students are from the more straight forward in the regs.
You have yet to explain one reasonable reason why scholarships not used for tuition, books or supplies are not taxable.
Maybe one of the "Major Lakewood Accountants" can enlighten us as to why a kollel check is any different?
that would have to wait until april 16th

Offline lunatic

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Re: any accountants out there that i can ask a question?
« Reply #255 on: April 08, 2014, 02:37:52 PM »
Experience has nothing to do with this. The rules for scholarships and stipends for graduate students are from the more straight forward in the regs.
You have yet to explain one reasonable reason why scholarships not used for tuition, books or supplies are not taxable.
Maybe one of the "Major Lakewood Accountants" can enlighten us as to why a kollel check is any different?

If people don't want to pay tax, they don't pay

Online yos9694

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Re: any accountants out there that i can ask a question?
« Reply #256 on: April 09, 2014, 08:35:21 AM »
If you buy seforim that can go against the kolel checks income. for example bmg offers life insurance and takes it off your checks. that can also be excluded.

Deducting life insurance premiums would not be legal for the individual. It is an after tax deduction.

Online yos9694

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Re: any accountants out there that i can ask a question?
« Reply #257 on: April 09, 2014, 08:56:30 AM »
What do you mean by "other taxable benefits"? Could you give an example?
In this case, the employer is overstating my income and probably paid more FICA and FUTA than if the W-2 would have been correct.
Beats me.

Overstating the net income amount wouldnt result in any FICA games since FICA is based on gross income. The game in your cases is not giving you credit for all your withholdings and pocketing the difference. But before you assume thats what happened, make sure there was nothing deducted from your take home checks after tax that would explain the gap.

Offline Bostener

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Re: any accountants out there that i can ask a question?
« Reply #258 on: April 10, 2014, 02:26:46 AM »
Deducting life insurance premiums would not be legal for the individual. It is an after tax deduction.
Source?
Airlines sending me "We're in this together" emails.

Bruh, where were you when my suitcase weighed it 51.50 pounds?

Offline michael

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Re: any accountants out there that i can ask a question?
« Reply #259 on: April 10, 2014, 11:26:47 AM »
Does anyone have an opinion on deducting cost of arba minim if purchased from a shul? I know goods were provided, but most of the goods' value was of a religious nature. Should any portion be deductible as a donation?