Sam Adams Cherry Chocolate Bock--kosher?

[henche]

Anyone have any insight on this?

In previous years the star-k has said it is milchig, non cholov yisroel.
This year they have made no public statements that I can see.
I called the brewery and was told there are no dairy ingredients, and there isn't even chocolate in it. Rather, the beer is aged on a bed of chocolate nibs (pieces of roasted cocoa bean).

I have some, and I kind of want to drink it.

[JustaHocker]

So drink it.
Why would you assume it's not made the same way as previous years.

Although I heard some poskim (who permit cholov stam) say it's assur (See YD 97).

[henche]

Interestingly, now I emailed the head of quality control who tells me it has lactose. But is it synthetic lactose?

[henche]

Justahocker: bec this year it also has cherry flavor which is maybe made from beaver gonad secretions

[churnbabychurn]

Although I heard some poskim (who permit cholov stam) say it's assur (See YD 97).

explain

[henche]

Presumably he is analogizing to milchig bread which is assur.

[churnbabychurn]

Presumably he is analogizing to milchig bread which is assur.

that's a little bit of stretch imho. This is a drink. Milk is a drink. 

[JustaHocker]

that's a little bit of stretch imho. This is a drink. Milk is a drink.

But you expect your milk to be dairy (duh) but not your bread. Or your spices. Or your beer.

[JustaHocker]

Justahocker: bec this year it also has cherry flavor which is maybe made from beaver gonad secretions

That's a pleasant thought.
The post mentioned only your concern with dairy. Flavorings are always an issue.

[henche]

But you expect your milk to be dairy (duh) but not your bread. Or your spices. Or your beer.

Well, it goes to what the theory of the issur is. I admit ignorance, but personally do not think it is about what your expectations are, since it apparently was common to have fleishig bread, and it says there that on shabbos they used to knead the challah with shmaltz.

I think it has to do with things that are normally eaten with meat or cheese, like bread and spices. Unlike cakes, vegetables, and drinks which are not eaten together with milk or cheese, but just accompany them.

[churnbabychurn]

Well, it goes to what the theory of the issur is. I admit ignorance, but personally do not think it is about what your expectations are, since it apparently was common to have fleishig bread, and it says there that on shabbos they used to knead the challah with shmaltz.

I think it has to do with things that are normally eaten with meat or cheese, like bread and spices. Unlike cakes, vegetables, and drinks which are not eaten together with milk or cheese, but just accompany them.

-1 on cake. IE. pas habo bekisnin like milchic borekas have to be made with a siman. Usually are triangle shaped in Israel.

[JustaHocker]

Well, it goes to what the theory of the issur is. I admit ignorance, but personally do not think it is about what your expectations are, since it apparently was common to have fleishig bread, and it says there that on shabbos they used to knead the challah with shmaltz.

It's clear that it has to do with expectations. Meaty bread for Shabbos or milk bread for Shavuos is only muttar within certain parameters. It's not the fact that it was uncommon, but that it was indiscernible.

[henche]

It's clear that it has to do with expectations. Meaty bread for Shabbos or milk bread for Shavuos is only muttar within certain parameters.

I use that as a proof to me. Because even though people expect bread on shabbos to be fleishig, it is still only muttar under certain parameters.

-1 on cake. IE. pas habo bekisnin like milchic borekas have to be made with a siman. Usually are triangle shaped in Israel.

Prove it. That they need to be made with a siman. The gemara and shulchan aruch mention pashtida more than any food, and never mentions what special siman it has or must have.

[churnbabychurn]

I use that as a proof to me. Because even though people expect bread on shabbos to be fleishig, it is still only muttar under certain parameters.

Prove it. That they need to be made with a siman. The gemara and shulchan aruch mention pashtida more than any food, and never mentions what special siman it has or must have.

Its been a while... I just opened the shulchan oruch. There is a lengthy discussion in the nachalas tzvi about wine that they added milk to to improve its look/ whether it would be nichlal in the gezeira or not. There is definitely what to discuss re the beer...

Second: The Ramo says that the reason why paladin and pashtida is muttar is because of the siman. (implicit in his words)
 The facts are, that in israel you cannot get a hechsher on cheese borekas unless you make them triangular to differentiate them from the potato ones.

(The piskei teshuva does say there not to add to the gezeira and this is why it possibly will only apply to pas or pas habo bekisnin.)

[JustaHocker]

There is at least room to ask. This is not the place to decide halachic shaylos.

[henche]

There is at least room to ask. This is not the place to decide halachic shaylos.

Who's paskening, we're having a great discussion wherein it was shown that it's been years since henche opened a shulchan aruch.