Topic Wiki

https://www.dansdeals.com/more/dans-commentary/dark-side-earning-credit-card-points-psa-dont-swipe-others/

https://www.mixcloud.com/zev-brenner/talkline-with-zev-brenner-on-credit-card-scams-affecting-the-orthodox-jewish-community/

http://podcast.headlinesbook.com/e/31616-credit-card-miles-and-points-swiping-for-rewards-buying-and-selling-miles-is-it-assur-and-a-chillul-hashem-or-a-great-way-for-a-side-parnassah/



BEFORE SWIPING FOR SOMEONE READ THIS: (first hand story)

https://forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=36812.msg2062371#msg2062371
https://www.dansdeals.com/more/dans-commentary/dark-side-earning-credit-card-points-psa-dont-swipe-others/#comment-1399884


Dan's warning to DDF:
I hope people realize that any buying group or anyone else that gets merchandise in advance of payment can go south at any time. That's even if you get a check at the time of delivery.
X-posting as I don't want anyone to say that I never put a warning here.

A story that ended up in court - https://iapps.courts.state.ny.us/nyscef/DocumentList?docketId=iRcRHuyZUdOIx69D00a5XQ==&display=all&courtType=Kings%20County%20Supreme%20Court&resultsPageNum=1


I am one of the biggest buyers for buying groups, I have done millions in transactions and have sent to every group there is over the past 3 years. Most buying groups are okay, some scan in slower than others, some pay slower than others - most will lose a few packages over the year. You can research and find which are better for you.

However there is a bigger problem now with Amazon itself.  Amazon in the past has been great with any problems always ready with a refund for lost packages even if it was thousands of dollars. Lately Amazon has clamped down and has tagged these buying groups addresses  in their systems as "freight forwarder" and now no longer will fix any problem you have whatsoever. Doesn't matter what the problem is, even if it shows the package was never delivered, amazon will not help you in any way. Their copy and paste response will always be "this item was sent to a freight forwarder and we're unable to replace or refund the item. We recommend contacting your freight forwarder for more details, as we don't have any more insight or information regarding this matter, For more information about sending items via freight forwarders, please visit our Help Pages: https://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=201117950." As well the amazon drivers either must know this or have been increasingly bad at delivering packages because the numbers of packages missing has gone up astronomically. Previously you would have very few packages missing, now the past 3 months I have had 59 "lost" packages. I now have over $15,000 of loses and some guy in Delaware is probably living the life with all the stuff he stole from me. I will survive, I have made a lot more than $15,000 over the years however just a warning to others here that things are not as they used to be and it really is no longer worth doing buring groups with all the loses piling up

« Last edited by Yo ssi on July 24, 2023, 06:47:26 PM »

Author Topic: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others  (Read 1502814 times)

Offline Matisyahu

  • Non-Elite Member
  • Join Date: Jan 2014
  • Posts: 0
  • Total likes: 0
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
  • Location: Brooklyn
Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #180 on: January 08, 2014, 11:04:47 PM »
So you mean i should ignore the sign in shul advertising a company that will apply for an AMEX plat on behalf of the shul and do all spending?
One has nothing to do with the other.
In the opening thread  he is asking that a person who is willing to lend someone money on their credit card as a loan should be aware of the possibility that the borrower can default on that loan and may have a hard time paying him back. Here the risk of borrowing money is on the lender.

Your question is based on a company's advertisement to make you money., here the risk of opening the cards, spending the money, paying the money, is all on the company offering this service. What's the question it's a win win service just ask them for any references before signing up

Offline avremie

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite + Lifetime Gold Elite
  • ******
  • Join Date: Apr 2012
  • Posts: 942
  • Total likes: 9
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
  • Location: milky way
Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #181 on: January 08, 2014, 11:54:23 PM »
One has nothing to do with the other.
In the opening thread  he is asking that a person who is willing to lend someone money on their credit card as a loan should be aware of the possibility that the borrower can default on that loan and may have a hard time paying him back. Here the risk of borrowing money is on the lender.

Your question is based on a company's advertisement to make you money., here the risk of opening the cards, spending the money, paying the money, is all on the company offering this service. What's the question it's a win win service just ask them for any references before signing up
with all due respect sir this is your first post so i will take what you say with many grains of salt

Offline HP58

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Mar 2013
  • Posts: 1397
  • Total likes: 5
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 6
    • View Profile
  • Location: Lakewood
Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #182 on: January 09, 2014, 01:52:34 AM »
with all due respect sir this is your first post so i will take what you say with many grains of salt
+1000
Intriguing...

Offline Freddie

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Apr 2013
  • Posts: 3248
  • Total likes: 311
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
    • View Profile
  • Location: Pittsburgh
Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #183 on: January 09, 2014, 02:02:47 AM »
+1000
Intriguing...

You know how they catch pyromaniacs? At every fire, there's always a crowd. In that crowd, there's a guy that looks a little too "aroused." He starts asking everyone, "How do they think it started?"

Offline HP58

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Mar 2013
  • Posts: 1397
  • Total likes: 5
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 6
    • View Profile
  • Location: Lakewood
Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #184 on: January 09, 2014, 02:13:02 AM »
You know how they catch pyromaniacs? At every fire, there's always a crowd. In that crowd, there's a guy that looks a little too "aroused." He starts asking everyone, "How do they think it started?"
LOL

Offline shmuelb

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite + Lifetime Gold Elite
  • ******
  • Join Date: Mar 2011
  • Posts: 772
  • Total likes: 11
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Location: Israel
  • Programs: Amex Plat, AAdvantage, Elal Matmid, Southwest, Delta Silver Medallion Skymiles, Hertz #1 Gold 5 Star, National Emerald Club Executive.
Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #185 on: January 09, 2014, 05:38:55 PM »
Wow! Lot's of deep stuff here!!  :P

Your question is based on a company's advertisement to make you money., here the risk of opening the cards, spending the money, paying the money, is all on the company offering this service. What's the question it's a win win service just ask them for any references before signing up

What do you mean? If it gets messed up, your credit is messed up and you have to pay.
siyag lachachma :-)

Offline CountValentine

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Mar 2013
  • Posts: 17461
  • Total likes: 8296
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips -1
  • Gender: Female
    • View Profile
  • Location: Poland - Exiled
  • Programs: DAOTYA, DDF Level 3, 5K Lounge
Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #186 on: January 09, 2014, 05:40:49 PM »
Link? My PM works.  :)
Only on DDF does 24/6 mean 24/5/half/half
Simone Biles: “I love my black job”

Offline oisher

  • Dansdeals Bronze Elite
  • *
  • Join Date: Jul 2011
  • Posts: 45
  • Total likes: 0
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
  • Location: Albany, NY
Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others - Halachic question
« Reply #187 on: January 09, 2014, 06:33:00 PM »
Seriously, 'swiping' a credit card presents a halachic question of Ribis.
Rabbinic advice necessary.

Offline SamKey

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Mar 2013
  • Posts: 3373
  • Total likes: 30
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 2
    • View Profile
  • Location: If I'm there I can't be here and if I'm here I can't be there
  • Programs: National EE; Hertz PC; Sixt Plt; Avis First; Hilton Gold; Priority Club Plt; West Bestern DE; Carlson Club GE; Accor PLT
Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others - Halachic question
« Reply #188 on: January 10, 2014, 01:15:20 PM »
Seriously, 'swiping' a credit card presents a halachic question of Ribis.
Rabbinic advice necessary.
it's Halachically prohibited to swipe a CC? :-\

Offline voldemort

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: May 2011
  • Posts: 1092
  • Total likes: 36
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 3
    • View Profile
Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others - Halachic question
« Reply #189 on: January 12, 2014, 10:49:59 AM »
Seriously, 'swiping' a credit card presents a halachic question of Ribis.
Rabbinic advice necessary.
i have asked my lor in the past,there is no problem with swiping,however in the unfortunate event that he can't pay back,it is ribis for him to reimburse the intrest charges 

Offline elikay

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: May 2010
  • Posts: 5442
  • Total likes: 39
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 2
    • View Profile
Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #190 on: January 12, 2014, 11:51:33 AM »
it's Halachically prohibited to swipe a CC? :-\
::)

Offline JustaHocker

  • Dansdeals Gold Elite
  • ***
  • Join Date: Dec 2011
  • Posts: 134
  • Total likes: 1
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #191 on: January 12, 2014, 11:12:02 PM »
If it's the centurion, you may need to toivel it in Lake Carasaljo.
Sounds like the same genius who wrote in to one of the Jewish papers this past week....

Offline HP58

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Mar 2013
  • Posts: 1397
  • Total likes: 5
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 6
    • View Profile
  • Location: Lakewood
Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #192 on: January 13, 2014, 01:45:54 AM »
If it's the centurion, you may need to toivel it in Lake Carasaljo.
Sounds like the same genius who wrote in to one of the Jewish papers this past week....
Wrote what?

Offline BigDanFan

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite + Lifetime Silver Elite
  • *****
  • Join Date: Nov 2013
  • Posts: 722
  • Total likes: 0
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
  • Location: USA
  • Programs: SPG Biz Platinum, Amex Business Gold, Chase Ink Bold, SW, Delta Gold,etc...
Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others - Halachic question
« Reply #193 on: January 13, 2014, 09:07:06 AM »
i have asked my lor in the past,there is no problem with swiping,however in the unfortunate event that he can't pay back,it is ribis for him to reimburse the intrest charges
why would it be ribis for the yid to pay the monthly cc bill (which of course includes the 19%+ interest rate) of the other yid?
#DDSCLE,#DDSLA, spg platinum 2016,

Offline skyguy918

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Mar 2011
  • Posts: 4113
  • Total likes: 892
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Location: Queens, NY
Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others - Halachic question
« Reply #194 on: January 13, 2014, 09:44:52 AM »
why would it be ribis for the yid to pay the monthly cc bill (which of course includes the 19%+ interest rate) of the other yid?
If the guy who used the money is considered to be borrowing directly from the cc company, then everything is fine, the cc holder (the middle man) is not involved in the transaction and there is no ribbis. But if you view it (as most poskim do) as a loan from the cc company to the card holder, and a second loan from the cc holder to the final borrower, then the cc holder cannot ask the final borrower to reimburse him for any cc related charges above and beyond the actual loan amount, because that would be ribbis on the loan between the cc holder and the borrower.

Offline voldemort

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: May 2011
  • Posts: 1092
  • Total likes: 36
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 3
    • View Profile
Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others - Halachic question
« Reply #195 on: January 13, 2014, 11:28:32 AM »
If the guy who used the money is considered to be borrowing directly from the cc company, then everything is fine, the cc holder (the middle man) is not involved in the transaction and there is no ribbis. But if you view it (as most poskim do) as a loan from the cc company to the card holder, and a second loan from the cc holder to the final borrower, then the cc holder cannot ask the final borrower to reimburse him for any cc related charges above and beyond the actual loan amount, because that would be ribbis on the loan between the cc holder and the borrower.
+1

Offline BigDanFan

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite + Lifetime Silver Elite
  • *****
  • Join Date: Nov 2013
  • Posts: 722
  • Total likes: 0
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
  • Location: USA
  • Programs: SPG Biz Platinum, Amex Business Gold, Chase Ink Bold, SW, Delta Gold,etc...
Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others - Halachic question
« Reply #196 on: January 13, 2014, 11:57:56 AM »
If the guy who used the money is considered to be borrowing directly from the cc company, then everything is fine, the cc holder (the middle man) is not involved in the transaction and there is no ribbis. But if you view it (as most poskim do) as a loan from the cc company to the card holder, and a second loan from the cc holder to the final borrower, then the cc holder cannot ask the final borrower to reimburse him for any cc related charges above and beyond the actual loan amount, because that would be ribbis on the loan between the cc holder and the borrower.
-1
however, the loan is really from the cc to the borrower,
bec that borower would normally get his own cc, but cannot due to credit score, etc... so no ribis..
(However if cc owner is benefitting from points, payment bonuses, etc.. then it's obv. a perk to the cc owner, so he's not just doing it as a straight favor..)
#DDSCLE,#DDSLA, spg platinum 2016,

Offline Dr Moose

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Nov 2013
  • Posts: 4239
  • Total likes: 182
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 3
    • View Profile
Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #197 on: January 13, 2014, 12:00:28 PM »
-1
however, the loan is really from the cc to the borrower,
bec that borower would normally get his own cc, but cannot due to credit score, etc... so no ribis..
(However if cc owner is benefitting from points, payment bonuses, etc.. then it's obv. a perk to the cc owner, so he's not just doing it as a straight favor..)
where did you get this from?
Hey there! I am using DansDeals Forums.

Offline Achas Veachas

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Jul 2012
  • Posts: 4837
  • Total likes: 117
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 3
    • View Profile
    • Torah && Tech
Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #198 on: January 13, 2014, 12:03:09 PM »
-1
however, the loan is really from the cc to the borrower,
bec that borower would normally get his own cc, but cannot due to credit score, etc... so no ribis..
(However if cc owner is benefitting from points, payment bonuses, etc.. then it's obv. a perk to the cc owner, so he's not just doing it as a straight favor..)
Meaning, the CC doesn't want to lend money to the borrower so he is borrowing from you instead...

Offline BigDanFan

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite + Lifetime Silver Elite
  • *****
  • Join Date: Nov 2013
  • Posts: 722
  • Total likes: 0
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
  • Location: USA
  • Programs: SPG Biz Platinum, Amex Business Gold, Chase Ink Bold, SW, Delta Gold,etc...
Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #199 on: January 13, 2014, 12:07:14 PM »
Meaning, the CC doesn't want to lend money to the borrower so he is borrowing from you instead...
+1 exactly

he doesn't have the access to get it from the bank. but you do..
either way, the money does not belong to me/you
#DDSCLE,#DDSLA, spg platinum 2016,