Topic Wiki

https://www.dansdeals.com/more/dans-commentary/dark-side-earning-credit-card-points-psa-dont-swipe-others/

https://www.mixcloud.com/zev-brenner/talkline-with-zev-brenner-on-credit-card-scams-affecting-the-orthodox-jewish-community/

http://podcast.headlinesbook.com/e/31616-credit-card-miles-and-points-swiping-for-rewards-buying-and-selling-miles-is-it-assur-and-a-chillul-hashem-or-a-great-way-for-a-side-parnassah/



BEFORE SWIPING FOR SOMEONE READ THIS: (first hand story)

https://forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=36812.msg2062371#msg2062371
https://www.dansdeals.com/more/dans-commentary/dark-side-earning-credit-card-points-psa-dont-swipe-others/#comment-1399884


Dan's warning to DDF:
I hope people realize that any buying group or anyone else that gets merchandise in advance of payment can go south at any time. That's even if you get a check at the time of delivery.
X-posting as I don't want anyone to say that I never put a warning here.

A story that ended up in court - https://iapps.courts.state.ny.us/nyscef/DocumentList?docketId=iRcRHuyZUdOIx69D00a5XQ==&display=all&courtType=Kings%20County%20Supreme%20Court&resultsPageNum=1


I am one of the biggest buyers for buying groups, I have done millions in transactions and have sent to every group there is over the past 3 years. Most buying groups are okay, some scan in slower than others, some pay slower than others - most will lose a few packages over the year. You can research and find which are better for you.

However there is a bigger problem now with Amazon itself.  Amazon in the past has been great with any problems always ready with a refund for lost packages even if it was thousands of dollars. Lately Amazon has clamped down and has tagged these buying groups addresses  in their systems as "freight forwarder" and now no longer will fix any problem you have whatsoever. Doesn't matter what the problem is, even if it shows the package was never delivered, amazon will not help you in any way. Their copy and paste response will always be "this item was sent to a freight forwarder and we're unable to replace or refund the item. We recommend contacting your freight forwarder for more details, as we don't have any more insight or information regarding this matter, For more information about sending items via freight forwarders, please visit our Help Pages: https://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=201117950." As well the amazon drivers either must know this or have been increasingly bad at delivering packages because the numbers of packages missing has gone up astronomically. Previously you would have very few packages missing, now the past 3 months I have had 59 "lost" packages. I now have over $15,000 of loses and some guy in Delaware is probably living the life with all the stuff he stole from me. I will survive, I have made a lot more than $15,000 over the years however just a warning to others here that things are not as they used to be and it really is no longer worth doing buring groups with all the loses piling up

« Last edited by Yo ssi on July 24, 2023, 06:47:26 PM »

Author Topic: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others  (Read 1277615 times)

Offline zale

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jun 2011
  • Posts: 1452
  • Total likes: 380
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 3
    • View Profile
  • Location: Brooklyn, NY
Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #1960 on: February 10, 2019, 09:41:13 PM »
I worked for the CH people GN, LH & SS. I forecasted over 2 years ago that the model didn’t hold water and I left. Yet they are not scammers, just uneducated & inexperienced yeshivish ppl. A ddms post bashing them as ponzi perpetrators would be pure motzei Shem ra. End of the day it’s the idiots who forked over cash and credit cards who are ultimately responsible for their lack of basic investing knowledge.

A better idea for a ddms post is investment advice:

A) Never invest with someone who has no skin in the game.
B) Never invest money you can’t afford to lose.
C) Run every investment by a certified investment advisor (CFA, CFP, at a least a CPA) before investing. Retaining a due diligence company is also advised.
D) Have a lawyer draw up a detailed agreement with all investment details and waterfall.
E) Tip: Never invest with someone under 30, or with someone whose last venture or two went bust.
F) If you’re not an investment professional, putting whatever money you have available to invest in a S&P 500 MF or ETF is your best bet at investing, and stay focused on your day job/business and seek growth there.

The only advice here that matters is to never invest money you can’t afford to lose.

I disagree about the others. I think the people that became billionaires from investing with Zuckerberg would disagree with you.

Offline ludmila

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Aug 2012
  • Posts: 5155
  • Total likes: 271
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
  • Location: IND
  • Programs: Hilton Diamond,Marriott Platinum,SPG Platinum.
Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #1961 on: February 10, 2019, 09:42:15 PM »
How do they get investors(victims)? Do they advertise in local papers, word of mouth?
I was the Best,still the Best, and will always be the Best.
Pele Good,Maradona Better, George Best.

Offline JACKBLUE

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jan 2014
  • Posts: 2412
  • Total likes: 402
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 4
    • View Profile
  • Location: USA
Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #1962 on: February 10, 2019, 09:42:54 PM »
How do they get investors(victims)? Do they advertise in local papers, word of mouth?
Both

Offline gozalim

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Oct 2008
  • Posts: 4390
  • Total likes: 861
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #1963 on: February 10, 2019, 09:43:47 PM »
compensated WOM?

Offline YesThatsMe

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite + Lifetime Gold Elite
  • ******
  • Join Date: May 2017
  • Posts: 761
  • Total likes: 140
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #1964 on: February 10, 2019, 09:44:37 PM »
All good and sound advice except for -Never invest with someone under 30-age has nothing to do with it, there are successful young entrepreneurs as many as old fools :)

Ludmilla, you are a voice of reason and I respect every comment you make in these forums and am honored by your agreement to my post.

But believe me, this under 30 thing is very true in our Chareidi communities. Probably due to the fact that most people rely on “getting experience” vs getting educated (aka “I’ll learn on the job”). The guys you’re referring to are Harvard dropouts, not BMG or Monroe grads.

Offline ludmila

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Aug 2012
  • Posts: 5155
  • Total likes: 271
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
  • Location: IND
  • Programs: Hilton Diamond,Marriott Platinum,SPG Platinum.
Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #1965 on: February 10, 2019, 09:46:25 PM »
Ludmilla, you are a voice of reason and I respect every comment you make in these forums and am honored by your agreement to my post.

But believe me, this under 30 thing is very true in our Chareidi communities. Probably due to the fact that most people rely on “getting experience” vs getting educated (aka “I’ll learn on the job”). The guys you’re referring to are Harvard dropouts, not BMG or Monroe grads.
Thank you :), and you do make a point, I was talking in general.
I was the Best,still the Best, and will always be the Best.
Pele Good,Maradona Better, George Best.

Offline YesThatsMe

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite + Lifetime Gold Elite
  • ******
  • Join Date: May 2017
  • Posts: 761
  • Total likes: 140
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #1966 on: February 10, 2019, 09:46:50 PM »
why didn't you warn anyone?

I sure did

Offline Chief Rabbi of New York

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Dec 2013
  • Posts: 1237
  • Total likes: 52
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 15
    • View Profile
Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #1967 on: February 10, 2019, 09:48:50 PM »
I sure did

How did you warn people ? Just people you knew ?
Should the scammer go to jail ?
What did the scammers say to you when you confronted them that their method wouldn’t work ?
Show Some Respect for Me, I am The Chief Rabbi of New York :)

Offline YesThatsMe

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite + Lifetime Gold Elite
  • ******
  • Join Date: May 2017
  • Posts: 761
  • Total likes: 140
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #1968 on: February 10, 2019, 09:49:18 PM »
The only advice here that matters is to never invest money you can’t afford to lose.

I disagree about the others. I think the people that became billionaires from investing with Zuckerberg would disagree with you.

Do you understand that Zuckerberg got into Harvard on a full scholarship? That he only took on investors once his platform had tens of millions of users? Are you comparing him to every joe out of Kolel? Seriously!

Offline Dan

  • Administrator
  • Dansdeals Lifetime 50K Diamond Elite
  • **********
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 69463
  • Total likes: 18105
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 16442
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Location: CLE
  • Programs: UA GS, AA EXP, DL Dirt, Hyatt Glob, Fairmont Lifetime Plat, DD Diamond, Blocked By @NeriaKraus
Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #1969 on: February 10, 2019, 09:50:01 PM »
Are we calling cc swiping "investing" now?
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Offline joey89

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite
  • ****
  • Join Date: Mar 2011
  • Posts: 392
  • Total likes: 70
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
  • Location: New Orleans
Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #1970 on: February 10, 2019, 09:50:49 PM »
The only advice here that matters is to never invest money you can’t afford to lose.

I disagree about the others. I think the people that became billionaires from investing with Zuckerberg would disagree with you.
They didn’t loan him money, they bought equity. Which means they had unlimited upside which made their risk of loosing it all (Thanos) worth the gamble.

Offline Dave321

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: May 2013
  • Posts: 1118
  • Total likes: 102
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
    • View Profile
  • Location: brooklyn
Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #1971 on: February 10, 2019, 09:52:04 PM »
I never understood this. If a business is successful it should have its own credit cards. If there's an issue getting their own cards, then that's a bright red flag. I have a small business for 2 years and my charge card can hold at least 300k at once.

Offline luckyluck

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite
  • ****
  • Join Date: May 2013
  • Posts: 366
  • Total likes: 47
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 5
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #1972 on: February 10, 2019, 09:54:56 PM »
FTFY
by the way the idea is to not have an email address all spelled out to minimize spam from web crawlers

Offline YesThatsMe

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite + Lifetime Gold Elite
  • ******
  • Join Date: May 2017
  • Posts: 761
  • Total likes: 140
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #1973 on: February 10, 2019, 09:55:32 PM »
Are we calling cc swiping "investing" now?

Lending.

I was referring to early investors, there was a solid group of them.

Whoever gave over a credit card is an imbecile in our opinions.

Offline Chief Rabbi of New York

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Dec 2013
  • Posts: 1237
  • Total likes: 52
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 15
    • View Profile
Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #1974 on: February 10, 2019, 10:04:27 PM »
How many lives have to get ruined from things like this ?
I wonder if @Dan will get enough facts to make a DDMS post about this
Show Some Respect for Me, I am The Chief Rabbi of New York :)

Offline YesThatsMe

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite + Lifetime Gold Elite
  • ******
  • Join Date: May 2017
  • Posts: 761
  • Total likes: 140
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #1975 on: February 10, 2019, 10:05:17 PM »
How did you warn people ? Just people you knew ?
Should the scammer go to jail ?
What did the scammers say to you when you confronted them that their method wouldn’t work ?


When I was there funding was from a group of investors. Whoever asked my opinion I said to not invest more.

Remember this was a legitimate business, not a Ponzi scheme. They should not go to jail. They’re response to my concerns was “you’re an employee, we’re The bosses, this is how we do things etc.”

Remember, hindsight is 20-20. Before this all blew up there was no way of knowing I’d be right. I’m actually sad I was.

Many very successful businessmen make grave mistakes and take fortunes with them to the bottom. Just because an analyst tucked away at some ratings firm voiced concern once doesn’t mean it was a scam all along.

Offline Mo2

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite + Lifetime Silver Elite
  • *****
  • Join Date: May 2013
  • Posts: 640
  • Total likes: 77
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 4
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Location: USA
Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #1976 on: February 10, 2019, 10:09:54 PM »
Are we calling cc swiping "investing" now?
I hope not! are points the return? that's a very bad "investment" even when there's very low risk. but in fact it's very big risks for very small "returns".
people need to look at giving out their credit card like lending cash. would you lend that someone 1k? 10K? 100K? people are either clueless or idiots. I think it's more clueless. they incorrectly think that if something goes wrong they can just dispute it with their credit cards and all will be fine. what's even worse is that many people doing this don't even have $1000 in assets to their name and/or are struggling to live month to month
Common sense is not a gift, it is a punishment.
Because you have to deal with everyone who doesn't have it.

Offline Chief Rabbi of New York

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Dec 2013
  • Posts: 1237
  • Total likes: 52
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 15
    • View Profile
Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #1977 on: February 10, 2019, 10:12:55 PM »
I hope not! are points the return? that's a very bad "investment" even when there's very low risk. but in fact it's very big risks for very small "returns".
people need to look at giving out their credit card like lending cash. would you lend that someone 1k? 10K? 100K? people are either clueless or idiots. I think it's more clueless. they incorrectly think that if something goes wrong they can just dispute it with their credit cards and all will be fine. what's even worse is that many people doing this don't even have $1000 in assets to their name and/or are struggling to live month to month

Is it bad investment for 2% a month
That’s like 24% annually
Show Some Respect for Me, I am The Chief Rabbi of New York :)

Offline joey89

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite
  • ****
  • Join Date: Mar 2011
  • Posts: 392
  • Total likes: 70
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
  • Location: New Orleans
Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #1978 on: February 10, 2019, 10:16:46 PM »
Is it bad investment for 2% a month
That’s like 24% annually
It’s for 2 months, 12% in these circumstances is not great

Offline zh cohen

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Dec 2013
  • Posts: 1734
  • Total likes: 1723
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Location: 412
Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #1979 on: February 10, 2019, 10:38:18 PM »
One point that needs to be spoken about more is how MS and "the game" affect how people look at credit card spending. It doesn't feel like real money.

None of these people would go to a bank, take out a loan and hand over cash to a stranger, but when you do tens or and even hundreds of thousands of dollars of MS it starts to feel like fake money, because it's all numbers on the screen.

Dan deserves praise for reminding people to be careful and people should pay more attention to those warnings
« Last Edit: February 10, 2019, 10:42:21 PM by zh cohen »