Topic Wiki

https://www.dansdeals.com/more/dans-commentary/dark-side-earning-credit-card-points-psa-dont-swipe-others/

https://www.mixcloud.com/zev-brenner/talkline-with-zev-brenner-on-credit-card-scams-affecting-the-orthodox-jewish-community/

http://podcast.headlinesbook.com/e/31616-credit-card-miles-and-points-swiping-for-rewards-buying-and-selling-miles-is-it-assur-and-a-chillul-hashem-or-a-great-way-for-a-side-parnassah/



BEFORE SWIPING FOR SOMEONE READ THIS: (first hand story)

https://forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=36812.msg2062371#msg2062371
https://www.dansdeals.com/more/dans-commentary/dark-side-earning-credit-card-points-psa-dont-swipe-others/#comment-1399884


Dan's warning to DDF:
I hope people realize that any buying group or anyone else that gets merchandise in advance of payment can go south at any time. That's even if you get a check at the time of delivery.
X-posting as I don't want anyone to say that I never put a warning here.

A story that ended up in court - https://iapps.courts.state.ny.us/nyscef/DocumentList?docketId=iRcRHuyZUdOIx69D00a5XQ==&display=all&courtType=Kings%20County%20Supreme%20Court&resultsPageNum=1


I am one of the biggest buyers for buying groups, I have done millions in transactions and have sent to every group there is over the past 3 years. Most buying groups are okay, some scan in slower than others, some pay slower than others - most will lose a few packages over the year. You can research and find which are better for you.

However there is a bigger problem now with Amazon itself.  Amazon in the past has been great with any problems always ready with a refund for lost packages even if it was thousands of dollars. Lately Amazon has clamped down and has tagged these buying groups addresses  in their systems as "freight forwarder" and now no longer will fix any problem you have whatsoever. Doesn't matter what the problem is, even if it shows the package was never delivered, amazon will not help you in any way. Their copy and paste response will always be "this item was sent to a freight forwarder and we're unable to replace or refund the item. We recommend contacting your freight forwarder for more details, as we don't have any more insight or information regarding this matter, For more information about sending items via freight forwarders, please visit our Help Pages: https://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=201117950." As well the amazon drivers either must know this or have been increasingly bad at delivering packages because the numbers of packages missing has gone up astronomically. Previously you would have very few packages missing, now the past 3 months I have had 59 "lost" packages. I now have over $15,000 of loses and some guy in Delaware is probably living the life with all the stuff he stole from me. I will survive, I have made a lot more than $15,000 over the years however just a warning to others here that things are not as they used to be and it really is no longer worth doing buring groups with all the loses piling up

« Last edited by Yo ssi on July 24, 2023, 06:47:26 PM »

Author Topic: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others  (Read 1182458 times)

Offline Chief Rabbi of New York

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #2220 on: February 18, 2019, 05:38:18 PM »
CRONY is a troll from toll land, just ignore him.

get a life
seriously after such a horrible thing you can say this ?
Show Some Respect for Me, I am The Chief Rabbi of New York :)

Offline cmey

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #2221 on: February 18, 2019, 05:46:02 PM »
According to AJ Weissman's linked in page,  GSN Holdings, currently owns and operates, The Buzz of Brooklyn and Boro Park. Sterling Electronics of Crown Heights, and is partnered with DB Electronics of Lakewood.

linked-in page, https://www.linkedin.com/in/a-j-weissman-2abb19139/

Will all these stores also go under soon?

Is Westview involved as well?

Offline Yard sale

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #2222 on: February 18, 2019, 06:06:33 PM »
DDF is not a courtroom to warrant knowing all of the details and facts in the case. Nor is it acceptable to voyeuristicly want to know all the juicy gossip about the pain that others are going through. On the other hand, the more details that are known, the more real the story becomes to others, and therefore the more effective a deterrent it becomes to others who are about to do the same.

I think that enough of the story has been told here to raise awareness of the risks of credit card swiping as well as the risks of putting your nest egg with a couple of well meaning guys who can boast of amazing profits on a line of product,  but who’s lack of accurate financials is telling a very different story than what is really taking place.

However, DDF has a limited readership, and is probably underrepresented by those who need to here it most; people with limited financial literacy and sometimes limited online access. It seems clear that the principles involved are well meaning people who got it over their heads to something they might not even fully have understood. I’m sure they would want to educate others to avoid what they are going through. If the parties that are involved can get out a story that is detailed enough to make it real without sacrificing the interests of all involved, in a form that can be disseminated more widely they would be doing the public a great service.

In just that past few weeks I was approached by someone for advice on how to connect to guys at BMG to apply/ swipe credit cards to fund the operations of a (non- Amazon type) business that seems to have a fairly decent track record and business plan. I sent him the link to this thread and told him it’s not a good idea. He’s a great guy, and they business he was looking to be an intermediary for seemed sound but I’m sure some of the others that people lost everything on did as well.

Some of these stories probably have multiple layers, i.e., the guy who takes a cut for bringing in “investors” which turns out to be funding from credit card swipes that may be run through an entirely separate business....

Offline zale

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #2223 on: February 18, 2019, 06:29:41 PM »
That's something many people fail to pay attention to. If things get serious enough and go to a court of law, the court will not respect the corporate veil, if the owners didn't!

It’s not that simple.

You can only sue an entity other than the entity you gave money directly to (or was explicitly listed in the contract) if you can prove that your money was sent to that entity with intent by the defendant and that said defendant controls that entity. For example, if the merchant  paid a contractor $100K to remodel his store, you can’t seize the money from that contractor even if you believe that this was your money. But if the merchant moved the money to another business that is also  controlled by him, you will need to proof as stated above.

Sometimes in order to prove that, you would first need to sue the entity or person you gave the money to, and once you get a judgement in your favor  you can use that for discovery. This process can take many months. Once you can prove that the money was sent to another entity, you would then have to sue that entity. We are talking potentially 1-2 years and tens of thousands in legal expenses.

It’s been mentioned in earlier posts that some investors were given personal guarantees and contracts. Those investors have a clear advantage. Those who swiped with no contract will have an uphill battle. (Uphill battle is unfortunately a massive understatement)

Offline Chief Rabbi of New York

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #2224 on: February 18, 2019, 06:35:21 PM »
It’s not that simple.

You can only sue an entity other than the entity you gave money directly to (or was explicitly listed in the contract) if you can prove that your money was sent to that entity with intent by the defendant and that said defendant controls that entity. For example, if the merchant  paid a contractor $100K to remodel his store, you can’t seize the money from that contractor even if you believe that this was your money. But if the merchant moved the money to another business that is also  controlled by him, you will need to proof as stated above.

Sometimes in order to prove that, you would first need to sue the entity or person you gave the money to, and once you get a judgement in your favor  you can use that for discovery. This process can take many months. Once you can prove that the money was sent to another entity, you would then have to sue that entity. We are talking potentially 1-2 years and tens of thousands in legal expenses.

It’s been mentioned in earlier posts that some investors were given personal guarantees and contracts. Those investors have a clear advantage. Those who swiped with no contract will have an uphill battle. (Uphill battle is unfortunately a massive understatement)

@sillypainter anything to add ?
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Offline bermo

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #2225 on: February 18, 2019, 07:03:12 PM »
@Dan maybe just make the shortest post ever. No details needed. Just say:

NEVER SWIPE YOUR CREDIT CARD IN ORDER TO BE REIMBURSED AN AMOUNT YOU CAN'T AFFORD TO LOSE!

Proposed subtitle:
Even for the most honest and trustworthy people, unexpected things beyond anyone's control can happen, that will make that reimbursement get seriously delayed (possibly indefinitely).

IMHO it would be important to explain that you can't just make a chargeback because you didn't get paid back.
From what I hear a big reason why people do this is because they rely on chargebacks.
Just my $0.02

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #2226 on: February 18, 2019, 07:36:48 PM »
It’s not that simple.

You can only sue an entity other than the entity you gave money directly to (or was explicitly listed in the contract) if you can prove that your money was sent to that entity with intent by the defendant and that said defendant controls that entity. For example, if the merchant  paid a contractor $100K to remodel his store, you can’t seize the money from that contractor even if you believe that this was your money. But if the merchant moved the money to another business that is also  controlled by him, you will need to proof as stated above.

Sometimes in order to prove that, you would first need to sue the entity or person you gave the money to, and once you get a judgement in your favor  you can use that for discovery. This process can take many months. Once you can prove that the money was sent to another entity, you would then have to sue that entity. We are talking potentially 1-2 years and tens of thousands in legal expenses.

It’s been mentioned in earlier posts that some investors were given personal guarantees and contracts. Those investors have a clear advantage. Those who swiped with no contract will have an uphill battle. (Uphill battle is unfortunately a massive understatement)
Unless a criminal investigation figures everything out paid for by the taxpayers..

Offline AJK

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #2227 on: February 18, 2019, 08:20:27 PM »
@sillypainter anything to add ?

Your head-and-shoulders-above-everyone-else interest in this thread means either you've been scammed yourself (for which I'm sorry), or there is another explanation for your seeming incessant and relentless pursuit of more information.  What's come out already should be enough to dissuade others from involving themselves in this type of "arrangement."

Any more information -- e.g. who did it, when it happened, why it happened, where it happened, and what shul the other guys davens at -- is irrelevant to the point, which has been stated a dozen times in this thread and need not be repeated by me.

In either case, you need to relax, my friend. 
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Online ExGingi

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #2228 on: February 18, 2019, 09:25:38 PM »
It’s not that simple.

...

It’s been mentioned in earlier posts that some investors were given personal guarantees and contracts. Those investors have a clear advantage. Those who swiped with no contract will have an uphill battle. (Uphill battle is unfortunately a massive understatement)

I didn't say it's simple. Winning something in court is never simple, guaranteed, or inexpensive. But if the numbers warrant the effort and expense, the owner of a cannot hide behind the corporate veil if he didn't respect it.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Offline Chief Rabbi of New York

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #2229 on: February 19, 2019, 07:25:22 AM »
Your head-and-shoulders-above-everyone-else interest in this thread means either you've been scammed yourself (for which I'm sorry), or there is another explanation for your seeming incessant and relentless pursuit of more information.  What's come out already should be enough to dissuade others from involving themselves in this type of "arrangement."

Any more information -- e.g. who did it, when it happened, why it happened, where it happened, and what shul the other guys davens at -- is irrelevant to the point, which has been stated a dozen times in this thread and need not be repeated by me.

In either case, you need to relax, my friend. 

I dont lend my cc out to anyone
I used to until I got exact details from a different story yrs ago.
That being said there has been quotes before of 4 mil , 12 mil , 50 mil
Seems like just rumors and might not be accurate enough to dissuade someone
I know what it means to earns all those cc points and people can still get over their head
Show Some Respect for Me, I am The Chief Rabbi of New York :)

Offline chevron

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #2230 on: February 19, 2019, 08:58:16 AM »
I dont lend my cc out to anyone
I used to until I got exact details from a different story yrs ago.
That being said there has been quotes before of 4 mil , 12 mil , 50 mil
Seems like just rumors and might not be accurate enough to dissuade someone
I know what it means to earns all those cc points and people can still get over their head

There are no rumors, you just aren't reading posts. These all refer to different stuff

Offline knowitall

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #2231 on: February 20, 2019, 10:02:09 PM »
This thread has been quiet for two days
I guess that’s good news

Offline yakrot

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #2232 on: February 20, 2019, 10:05:13 PM »
This thread has been quiet for two days
I guess that’s good news
Just means more ppl currently being scammed

Offline Menachem613

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #2233 on: February 20, 2019, 10:18:14 PM »
Just means more ppl currently being scammed


Look at bright side, at least a frum guy is making money from it.

Offline gingyguy

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #2234 on: February 20, 2019, 10:36:26 PM »

Look at bright side, at least a seemingly frum guy is making money from it.
FTFY
May you slide down the banister of happiness & get many splinters of success up your career.

Offline Z56

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #2235 on: February 20, 2019, 11:35:21 PM »

Look at bright side, at least a frum guy will burn to a crisp in HELL

FTFY

“I have nothing in common with lazy people who blame others for their lack of success. Great things come from hard work

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #2236 on: February 20, 2019, 11:39:03 PM »
This thread has been quiet for two days
I guess that’s good news
Means that the scammed people are busy trying to figure out what to do here. How to get out of this mess

Offline tzifanya54

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #2237 on: February 21, 2019, 08:59:30 AM »
This thread has been quiet for two days
I guess that’s good news
It just means that all the trolls realized they weren’t going to get any new info.

Offline cmey

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #2238 on: February 21, 2019, 10:54:18 AM »
It just means that all the trolls realized they weren’t going to get any new info.

Yep

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #2239 on: February 22, 2019, 01:44:19 PM »
ere is the story in regards to one of the recent credit card swiping scams.

Someone already mentioned the owners name S*****. He has a business reselling toners and other photo electronics.

He's been using people's credit cards for quite a number of years where he would use people's cards and pay the bills when they were due. He also had a lot of loans from loan sharks - paying 30% interest and paying over a year etc.

It reached a point where his business couldn't sustain the extreme amount of interest he was paying for swiping other people's credit cards.

He paid people to get him credit cards from other to swipe by him.
I know for a fact that he and his brother hounded people for credit cards when they already knew that things were going downhill, so all this talk that he's not a ganev, and didn't mean to screw anyone is a load of BS

The straw that broke the camel's back was when his credit card processor froze his processor and alot of money as well, and that is when the whole thing went bust.

There is between 15-18mm dollars owed to over 200 people just on credit cards alone. This doesn't include cash loans that he owes people.

These people live a very comfortable lifestyle, nice houses, expensive cards, own real estate etc.

Unfortunately there are many young kollel guys involved that don't have a single penny to their name and got connected to all this via the guys who brokered credit cards to this business.

At this point he hasn't given any sort of plan on how and when hes paying people back and is mostly just avoiding giving any real concrete plan. The options for all the victims all have downsides to them.

A few people have already disputed 100's of thousands of dollars, and this caused the merchant account to be flagged. Almost every person I know that is involved have gotten FR'ed by Amex.

People are either going to just have to default on the loans and hope for the best, or some may take the dispute route although with this much money at stake I doubt the processing bank will go down so easily. There are ways to dispute legally without saying any lies but it can be expensive and in addition there is a very big chance that this can blow up into an even larger criminal fraud investigation, and people might not want to be connected in any way shape or form to this business.

Its a big mess, and this isn't the only story happening right now - aside from Sterling there are at least 3 more stories that I know of going on right now.

I know it's been said many times here, and I myself always thought it won't happen to me, and its quite embarrassing - I'm a longtime ddfer and know many people on here personally - hence I created a new username for this post.

It's a very unfortunate situation with many victims involved. I know people who were/are on the verge of getting divorced bec of this. It's just not worth it. No matter how much point/money you can make. There are too many risks involved.

I will not answer any pm's and will try my best to answer any questions that are asked here.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2019, 05:54:45 PM by jj1000 »