Author Topic: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others  (Read 257193 times)

Offline zale

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jun 2011
  • Posts: 1128
  • Total likes: 180
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 3
    • View Profile
  • Location: Brooklyn, NY
Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #2700 on: February 26, 2019, 01:43:22 PM »
Amazing that people are looking for his assets before he was even sued and before there is a judgment. D&C Law will protect against fraudulent transfers and Bankruptcy Ct can drag his assets back even easier. The fact that there hasnt been a lawsuit filed already is astonishing.

It appears that many of the victims are first seeing what their other options are. A lawsuit will be costly and there is no guaranty that you will win, or even if you win, to recover the funds. If you can do a successful chargeback (which is highly unlikely) that would be the best option.

If you are going to sue, do it now. First to get a judgment can be first to collect. Just make sure you speak with a competent lawyer to ensure you have a real case.


Offline zale

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jun 2011
  • Posts: 1128
  • Total likes: 180
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 3
    • View Profile
  • Location: Brooklyn, NY
Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #2701 on: February 26, 2019, 01:44:39 PM »
It might be that hesitation to file a lawsuit is due to 1. Wanting to get Halachic permission to do so, and 2. Fear of this evolving into a criminal case.

That shouldn't take more than a five minute call with a rav.

Online LoLo

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Aug 2014
  • Posts: 3541
  • Total likes: 118
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #2702 on: February 26, 2019, 01:45:33 PM »
2. Fear of this evolving into a criminal case.
Most likely.

Offline gingyguy

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Sep 2011
  • Posts: 1221
  • Total likes: 296
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 36
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Programs: I don't like to brag
Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #2703 on: February 26, 2019, 01:59:56 PM »
That shouldn't take more than a five minute call with a rav.
AFAIK it requires a bais din
May you slide down the banister of happiness & get many splinters of success up your career.

Offline chinagel

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Mar 2014
  • Posts: 3036
  • Total likes: 117
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
    • View Profile
  • Location: brooklyn
Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #2704 on: February 26, 2019, 02:00:48 PM »
That shouldn't take more than a five minute call with a rav.
?? ??? :o

Offline chayal101

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite + Lifetime Silver Elite
  • *****
  • Join Date: Oct 2013
  • Posts: 633
  • Total likes: 82
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
  • Gender: Female
    • View Profile
Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #2705 on: February 26, 2019, 02:07:57 PM »
I am truly horrified by this story!! At the same time, I feel like many names have been exposed in this thread and it's uneccessary being that those involved already KNOW all the 'names'  It's definitely bordering on Loshon Hora, and will cause more harm than good, based on the differences of opinions not all info shared here is 100% accurate or factual... Keep in mind this is a public forum and everybody can access your posts. I don't feel like this is beneficial in any way. Victims can share their stories without using names, and if anyone has advice they can offer it without using any names! PMs works as well! Hoping for the best outcome for all of the victims!!
Mods, if there's a way for you to clean up alot of the names mentioned in this thread, that really should be done!
I will be opening a new thread where we can discuss contributing to running an ad campaign anti-credit card swiping businesses.
Chaya L.

Offline ExGingi

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Nov 2015
  • Posts: 6098
  • Total likes: 1030
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 7
    • View Profile
  • Location: 770
Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #2706 on: February 26, 2019, 02:09:14 PM »
That shouldn't take more than a five minute call with a rav.

A Rov that will issue a ruling on such a case over a 5 minute phone call, where

2. Fear of this evolving into a criminal case.
Most likely.

well...


I can tell you from personal experience that when there are criminal issues involved, most Rabbonim try to avoid answering shaalos. When I needed a psak I was given the runaround, until one Rov who happens to be related to me, called up another Rov in EY, who had a relationship with, and put HaGaon R' Mendel Shafran on the phone, and he was the only Rov who was willing to give me a clear Halachic ruling!
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Offline PSA

  • DansDeals Copper Elite
  • *
  • Join Date: Feb 2019
  • Posts: 1
  • Total likes: 11
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #2707 on: February 26, 2019, 02:13:58 PM »
Klein had long meetings with S****. They claim it's to benefit all involved but I have no doubt in my mind that they are working for him as well to fight anybody who tries disputing charges on their own.

If you pay them their fees they'll work for you to get the money back, but they are correct that unless you have clear proof that the charges were unauthorized, your stepping into dirty water trying to dispute, and the processing bank will most likely come after you.

Can also be a problem halachilally to dispute. Questions about lying, defrauding/stealing from the bank. AYLOR

The main reason why people aren't suing is bec. it's not a question if this will turn criminal, but a matter of when it'll become criminal. There is too much money, and parties involved here for it not to be.
Once you sue/dispute your connected to the story and subjecting yourself to questions, subpoenas etc.

Although non of the cardholders did anything illegal by swiping/lending their cards to someone else, people might just want to distance themselves from this story as much as they can.

« Last Edit: February 26, 2019, 03:38:45 PM by jj1000 »

Offline zale

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jun 2011
  • Posts: 1128
  • Total likes: 180
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 3
    • View Profile
  • Location: Brooklyn, NY
Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #2708 on: February 26, 2019, 02:15:17 PM »
?? ??? :o

You seem shocked. Here, let me enlighten you:

Rav Moshe Feinstein (Teshuvot Igrot Moshe, C.M. 2:11) permits requesting that a civil judge issue a preliminary injunction, an order to freeze the status quo of property until verifying its owner. Since a preliminary injunction does not entail judgment, seeking this order does not violate Halachah. Similarly, Rav Mordechai Eliyahu (Techumin 3:244) rules that one may utilize civil courts to collect an undisputed debt. Once again, no prohibition exists when no judgment is involved. Teshuvot Maharsham (2:252 and 3:195) cites Rav Avraham David Wahrmann as permitting the use of civil courts to collect an undisputed debt in places where Batei Din have no legal authority.

Certain legal matters can be done prior to going to a Beis Din. Your local Rav can advise you on this.

Offline churnbabychurn

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Jul 2012
  • Posts: 7172
  • Total likes: 270
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
  • Location: Lakewood
Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #2709 on: February 26, 2019, 02:17:07 PM »
That shouldn't take more than a five minute call with a rav.
Huh? I thought it requires a Beis din.

Offline zale

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jun 2011
  • Posts: 1128
  • Total likes: 180
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 3
    • View Profile
  • Location: Brooklyn, NY
Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #2710 on: February 26, 2019, 02:22:41 PM »
Klein had long meetings with S****. They claim it's to benefit all involved but I have no doubt in my mind that they are working for him as well to fight anybody who tries disputing charges on their own.

If you pay them their fees they'll work for you to get the money back, but they are correct that unless you have clear proof that the charges were unauthorized, your stepping into dirty water trying to dispute, and the processing bank will most likely come after you.

Can also be a problem halachilally to dispute. Questions about lying, defrauding/stealing from the bank. AYLOR

The main reason why people aren't suing is bec. it's not a question if this will turn criminal, but a matter of when it'll become criminal. There is too much money, and parties involved here for it not to be.
Once you sue/dispute your connected to the story and subjecting yourself to questions, subpoenas etc.

Although non of the cardholders did anything illegal by swiping/lending their cards to someone else, people might just want to distance themselves from this story as much as they can.

The perpetrator can also be trying to instill fear in his victims by spreading that they will caught up in a criminal investigation if they try to sue him.

I'm not saying that can't happen, but everyone should be speaking to a competent lawyer to see what the risks are. Hearsay means nothing.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2019, 03:39:17 PM by jj1000 »

Offline stooges44

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Jan 2017
  • Posts: 4911
  • Total likes: 597
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 248
    • View Profile
Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #2711 on: February 26, 2019, 02:23:24 PM »
I am truly horrified by this story!! At the same time, I feel like many names have been exposed in this thread and it's uneccessary being that those involved already KNOW all the 'names'  It's definitely bordering on Loshon Hora, and will cause more harm than good, based on the differences of opinions not all info shared here is 100% accurate or factual... Keep in mind this is a public forum and everybody can access your posts. I don't feel like this is beneficial in any way. Victims can share their stories without using names, and if anyone has advice they can offer it without using any names! PMs works as well! Hoping for the best outcome for all of the victims!!
Mods, if there's a way for you to clean up alot of the names mentioned in this thread, that really should be done!
I will be opening a new thread where we can discuss contributing to running an ad campaign anti-credit card swiping businesses.

My thoughts as well.
If it's not free shipping it's not worth it.

Offline zale

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jun 2011
  • Posts: 1128
  • Total likes: 180
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 3
    • View Profile
  • Location: Brooklyn, NY
Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #2712 on: February 26, 2019, 02:27:49 PM »
Huh? I thought it requires a Beis din.

It does. But certain legal action may possibly be taken prior to a Beis Din. A Rav can advise you on that.

Offline Dan

  • Administrator
  • Dansdeals Lifetime 50K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • **********
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 53606
  • Total likes: 2410
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 16441
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Location: CLE
  • Programs: UA Global Services, AA Lifetime Plat, DL Dirt, SPG Plat, Hyatt Diamond, Fairmont Lifetime Plat, Hilton Diamond, Priority Club Plat, Avis Chairman, National EE, Hertz PC
Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #2713 on: February 26, 2019, 02:29:59 PM »
I'm not saying that can't happen, but everyone should be speaking to a competent lawyer to see what the risks are. Hearsay means nothing.
+1.
Anyone who has not yet talked to a lawyer and Rov is insane.
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Offline PSA

  • DansDeals Copper Elite
  • *
  • Join Date: Feb 2019
  • Posts: 1
  • Total likes: 11
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #2714 on: February 26, 2019, 02:47:40 PM »
The perpetrator can also be trying to instill fear in his victims by spreading that they will caught up in a criminal investigation if they try to sue him.

I'm not saying that can't happen, but everyone should be speaking to a competent lawyer to see what the risks are. Hearsay means nothing.
In this case it isn't. The banks have already initiated investigations but I agree with you. Everyone needs to do find their own legal, and rabinnical advice.