Author Topic: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others  (Read 487471 times)

Offline yelped

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #3140 on: March 06, 2019, 11:29:35 AM »
It's not as bad as I (and others) may have made it sound, especially since he probably agrees with you on this stuff. I think he just sometimes forgets that the purpose of having guests on is to hear their point of view, especially when it is a topic he is passionate about.
Well, asking hard questions is a better way to gain clarity than having an echo chamber. See Bava Metzia.

Offline Denverite

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #3141 on: March 06, 2019, 11:34:11 AM »
a little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing. Sort of like giving advise on disputing credit card by being a DDF member.
LOL

He has lots of listeners, including many that are complaining about him on this group.
Keep your cool and your focus and you'll be good. You might even teach other being interviewed how to stay cool and stick to their ground.
Make your credentials clear, the fact that you run a successful business, and that you constantly warn people of scams.

+1

Be sure to record it yourself in case of edits!!!
Also, he will prob have the attitude of m many wealthy people that credit card churning is for poor uneducated people and that it's just a way to take advantage of credit card companies. His undertones are very loud. Since he runs the show, the only way you can outshout him is by quoting real numbers and facts and citing sources. You can't just tell him "the credit card companies want people to sign up because most people....."
Also, he'll def challenge you on going against T&c by selling points.
You'll prob want to explain how the banks strong-arm the cardholders when they are in the mood, how they shut down and steal hard-earned points at their discretion. Also, the way they devaluate points and how points don't have legal cash value.
Lastly, tell him not to compare the Amazon tragedy to 9/11. And don't forget to talk about wealthy people declaring bankruptcy to save their assests. Ask him if that's also against his ethics.

Just clarifying, I could be wrong but I think Dan is on the show to talk about avoiding scams, being responsible with credit cards and the surrounding halachic issues.  If that's incorrect, someone can set me straight.  Are you advocating that on this taped show, Dan should advise people to go "against T&C by selling points" and "how points don't have a legal cash value" but they should sell them? And if points don't have a legal cash value (your assertion, not mine as I never looked into and use mine for fun vacations), how should he advocate valuing and selling them, illegally?  This doesn't sounds like a good idea to do in any forum. 

This guy can only challenge these assertions if Dan makes them and maybe I am naive but when has Dan himself (not all the posts by others on DDF) ever actually advised people to go against bank T&Cs to sell points? 



Offline Denverite

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #3142 on: March 06, 2019, 11:38:03 AM »
Another aspect I just thought of in this whole brewing legal mess that seems to be coming.  I know nothing about the points buying businesses, do they generally issue 1099s?  Even if no one disputes charges, if the tax or other federal authorities do get involved are these Cardholders safe from a legal and tax standpoint?

Offline shmuels2

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #3143 on: March 06, 2019, 11:46:44 AM »
Sounds amazing. What did y'all get me into  ???

I'm a regular listener of his and a fan. I would recommend to be prepared to be challenged over your "role" in popularizing the pursuit of miles and deals in the frum community, whether you bear  responsibility for it and whether it's healthy. Of course I have no idea if it'll go that way, but I would be prepared for it. (I'm not suggesting you do bear any such responsibility)

Offline Dan

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #3144 on: March 06, 2019, 11:47:43 AM »
I'm a regular listener of his and a fan. I would recommend to be prepared to be challenged over your "role" in popularizing the pursuit of miles and deals in the frum community, whether you bear  responsibility for it and whether it's healthy. Of course I have no idea if it'll go that way, but I would be prepared for it.
That's easy to defend, assuming he's intellectually honest. If I listen to one podcast today from him, which should it be?
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Offline shmuels2

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #3145 on: March 06, 2019, 11:49:40 AM »
That's easy to defend, assuming he's intellectually honest. If I listen to one podcast today from him, which should it be?

I'd say this one might have the most crossover: http://podcast.headlinesbook.com/e/12118-dealing-with-criminals-and-scandals-what-wasnt-discussed-at-the-agudah-convention/

Offline shmuels2

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #3146 on: March 06, 2019, 11:54:55 AM »
That's easy to defend, assuming he's intellectually honest. If I listen to one podcast today from him, which should it be?

Easy to defend, sure. If it was me and I was unprepared, I might find myself flustered. Lots of people not in the public eye are not accustomed to having their lifestyle/identity/livelihood challenged directly by a stranger, and could be tripped up even if they have plenty to say. I take it you've been here before?

Offline Dan

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #3147 on: March 06, 2019, 11:57:10 AM »
Easy to defend, sure. If it was me and I was unprepared, I might find myself flustered. Lots of people not in the public eye are not accustomed to having their lifestyle/identity/livelihood challenged directly by a stranger, and could be tripped up even if they have plenty to say. I take it you've been here before?
There were often some people after a DDS who spoke up with tough questions. The worst I can remember was actually in CLE at a regional kinus hashluchim about hidden city ticketing and it caused a nasty fight in the room.
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Offline Dave321

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #3148 on: March 06, 2019, 11:59:33 AM »
from the few that I listened to, DL is intellectual and comes very prepared. I dont think it will be an issue for you tho, just make sure to have your facts and figures.

Offline lubaby

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #3149 on: March 06, 2019, 12:01:33 PM »
but when has Dan himself (not all the posts by others on DDF) ever actually advised people to go against bank T&Cs to sell points? 
Maybe not explicitly "you can / should sell your points for cash", but offering "Have a ton of miles to burn? We can also work out a method to pay for the cruise with them!" certainly implied that.

Offline boruchmig

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #3150 on: March 06, 2019, 12:18:58 PM »
I'm sure its not your first time being challanged. Just on this forum alone you've bes challenged a bunch of times, so you certainly know how to respond.

So go on his show,  because if you are the man you portray yourself as; you will come out fine, and if you get burned then great, cause what right do you have to...
(Based on the works of r' shmuel munkes)

Offline Alexsei

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #3151 on: March 06, 2019, 12:21:30 PM »
Slightly OT but funny, from https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Lichtenstein
Quote
He purchased his first property with a $12,000 down payment in the mid-1980s, which was funded by maxing out credit cards and using some funds from a small savings account.
Gullible? Click here to find out!

Offline Dan

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #3152 on: March 06, 2019, 12:24:01 PM »
Listening now to the Brenner interview for the first time.

A few takeaways so far.

1. I say um too much.
2. It does sound like AT is personally involved in $50MM+ of these cases, though which side for each is unclear.
3. AT says disputing can get you in criminal trouble as you affirming under oath that you don't recognize the charge, but an initial chargeback isn't an affirmation under oath. Of course it may come to that, but it should not be hard to at least initiate a chargeback without those repercussions.
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Offline ExGingi

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #3153 on: March 06, 2019, 12:26:05 PM »
Listening now to the Brenner interview for the first time.

A few takeaways so far.

1. I say um too much.

Most people do. There are speaking courses and possibly practice groups where one can improve their speaking.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Offline Dan

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #3154 on: March 06, 2019, 12:28:04 PM »
Most people do. There are speaking courses and possibly practice groups where one can improve their speaking.
Mic Drop  ;D
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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #3155 on: March 06, 2019, 12:34:30 PM »
Mic Drop  ;D
I can get you a good rate ;)
See my 5 step program to your left <--

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Offline Dan

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Offline shapsam

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #3157 on: March 06, 2019, 12:39:05 PM »
Listening now to the Brenner interview for the first time.

3. AT says disputing can get you in criminal trouble as you affirming under oath that you don't recognize the charge, but an initial chargeback isn't an affirmation under oath. Of course it may come to that, but it should not be hard to at least initiate a chargeback without those repercussions.
If not under oath, are you allowed to say whatever you want to a bank without any repercussions?

Offline Dan

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #3158 on: March 06, 2019, 12:40:42 PM »
If not under oath, are you allowed to say whatever you want to a bank without any repercussions?
I'm not advocating lying. But there are other things you can likely say that aren't lying. I'd suggest hiring a lawyer in these cases.
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Offline shapsam

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #3159 on: March 06, 2019, 12:44:44 PM »
I'm not advocating lying. But there are other things you can likely say that aren't lying. I'd suggest hiring a lawyer in these cases.
I'm asking in general, it is illegal to lie to bank only if under oath?
Is a credit card application under oath?