Author Topic: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others  (Read 412800 times)

Offline Traveler718

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #3975 on: November 06, 2020, 03:43:13 PM »
Because they have the upper hand to say too bad we are not checking in your watches at this price anymore, if you want your credit cleared up after a month and not need to lay out all the money for the 40 or so watches that you bought and the cc bill being due, you need to return it.

I get that. So they have the upper hand and even if I follow all their instructions, if they're facing a big loss for whatever reason, they can back out of the deal and I have no recourse other than to return the merchandise.

But then why doesn't it go both ways? If I sign up for one of their deals and then later find out that someone else is offering a much bigger commission, why shouldn't I have the upper hand in this case if I don't care about my long-term relationship with the BG? Is there any halachic problem with me backing out and selling it for more (or offering them to match, which they likely won't) since it was never 100% a done deal? And if so, is there ever a point short of giving them the item or taking their money at which it would be a problem to back out?

Offline Traveler718

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #3976 on: November 06, 2020, 03:45:12 PM »
Not necessarily all the groups with all the deals.

I'm sure each group has its own individual policy. But once the concept exists that registering for a deal or even submitting my order info isn't 100% binding on them and they can renege under certain circumstances, shouldn't I be entitled to the same right of backing out for my financial good (e.g. if I find a much higher commission elsewhere, or even if I just decide I want to hang on to the item for myself)?

Has anyone ever discussed these halachos with a posek who understands buying groups? I'm interested in doing so myself, but need to first understand how the BG's work in terms of when they give themselves the right to back out, and when it's considered truly binding.

Offline Mootkim

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #3977 on: November 07, 2020, 06:04:15 PM »
I'm sure each group has its own individual policy. But once the concept exists that registering for a deal or even submitting my order info isn't 100% binding on them and they can renege under certain circumstances, shouldn't I be entitled to the same right of backing out for my financial good (e.g. if I find a much higher commission elsewhere, or even if I just decide I want to hang on to the item for myself)?

Has anyone ever discussed these halachos with a posek who understands buying groups? I'm interested in doing so myself, but need to first understand how the BG's work in terms of when they give themselves the right to back out, and when it's considered truly binding.
there was a whole write up in the beis din section of the ami when this happened last year with the palladium coin. The bottom line from the article was aylor. Imo if you committed to a bg that themselves have backed out on you personally, (not just hearing a story from someone else) I don't see why you need to be better than them.

Offline gozalim

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #3978 on: November 07, 2020, 08:51:36 PM »
מי שפרע

Offline Traveler718

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #3979 on: November 07, 2020, 09:27:05 PM »
מי שפרע

As I understand it from Choshen Mishpat 204, מי שפרע only applies in a case where someone actually accepted money for a transaction and then backed out since מעות אינן קונות. But with BG's, no money is ever fronted or exchanged in advance, so מי שפרע wouldn't seem to be applicable. At most there's a question of מחוסר אמנה, which there's a a big מחלוקת if it applies in a case where the price changed, with the Rambam and Shulchan Aruch saying it does, while the Rosh and Tur say it does not.

The Aruch HaShulchan adds that the Gra says the Yerushalmi supports the latter opinion, and suggests that in such a case it's only a מדת חסידות to keep one's word. That's what I found over Shabbos.

If anyone has any additional mareh mekomos or contemporary p'sakim they've seen or received (especially with regards to BG's), I'd be very appreciative.
« Last Edit: November 07, 2020, 09:44:27 PM by Traveler718 »

Offline gozalim

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #3980 on: November 07, 2020, 09:43:48 PM »
You're probably right that the question would be מחוסר אמנה rather than מי שפרע

Online Euclid

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #3981 on: November 07, 2020, 09:45:13 PM »
This was handeled at length (by palladium coin) by the choshen mishpat beis din in Lakewood - R' Dov Kahn. It was posted at the time. 

Offline Kobe Bryant

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #3982 on: November 07, 2020, 09:48:45 PM »
This was handeled at length (by palladium coin) by the choshen mishpat beis din in Lakewood - R' Dov Kahn. It was posted at the time.
Can you BUTP

Online Euclid

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Offline jffn

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #3984 on: November 16, 2020, 10:44:05 PM »
Are there BG s? that buy electronics and how do I find them?

Offline Jellybelly

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #3985 on: November 16, 2020, 11:05:52 PM »
Are there BG s? that buy electronics and how do I find them?
Just curious, how many PMís did you get so far?


Offline El Capitan

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #3986 on: November 16, 2020, 11:10:16 PM »
Just curious, how many PMís did you get so far?
ALOL
Always looking for a good MS method... PM suggestions 😊

Offline chevron

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #3987 on: November 17, 2020, 02:16:17 PM »
What was not mentioned about one of the possible reasons somebody would buy at cost, besides points, If you are carrying a balance in your card, you could cycle your monthly debt and come out ahead, it's tricky and a lot can go wrong.

Bg is a disaster from what I'm reading, unlimited points have become like a virus for many and an addiction.

Realistically speaking I have been doing most of my travel lately on so many different promos, for a couple of dollars I have been able to fight too many US cities on JetBlue and get promotional points essentially spent $115 to five rounds with to three cities that I wanted to visit and also got 5,000 point bonus I'm aiming for the seven round trip flights for the 7,000 point bonus etc

Offline Duckracer87

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #3988 on: November 18, 2020, 05:19:06 PM »
What is the going check in time for MYS? Have had a couple packages delivered for a week but havenít been checked in yet.

Online m65

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #3989 on: November 18, 2020, 07:50:23 PM »
What is the going check in time for MYS? Have had a couple packages delivered for a week but havenít been checked in yet.
been extremely delayed lately