Topic Wiki

https://www.dansdeals.com/more/dans-commentary/dark-side-earning-credit-card-points-psa-dont-swipe-others/

https://www.mixcloud.com/zev-brenner/talkline-with-zev-brenner-on-credit-card-scams-affecting-the-orthodox-jewish-community/

http://podcast.headlinesbook.com/e/31616-credit-card-miles-and-points-swiping-for-rewards-buying-and-selling-miles-is-it-assur-and-a-chillul-hashem-or-a-great-way-for-a-side-parnassah/



BEFORE SWIPING FOR SOMEONE READ THIS: (first hand story)

https://forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=36812.msg2062371#msg2062371
https://www.dansdeals.com/more/dans-commentary/dark-side-earning-credit-card-points-psa-dont-swipe-others/#comment-1399884


Dan's warning to DDF:
I hope people realize that any buying group or anyone else that gets merchandise in advance of payment can go south at any time. That's even if you get a check at the time of delivery.
X-posting as I don't want anyone to say that I never put a warning here.

A story that ended up in court - https://iapps.courts.state.ny.us/nyscef/DocumentList?docketId=iRcRHuyZUdOIx69D00a5XQ==&display=all&courtType=Kings%20County%20Supreme%20Court&resultsPageNum=1


I am one of the biggest buyers for buying groups, I have done millions in transactions and have sent to every group there is over the past 3 years. Most buying groups are okay, some scan in slower than others, some pay slower than others - most will lose a few packages over the year. You can research and find which are better for you.

However there is a bigger problem now with Amazon itself.  Amazon in the past has been great with any problems always ready with a refund for lost packages even if it was thousands of dollars. Lately Amazon has clamped down and has tagged these buying groups addresses  in their systems as "freight forwarder" and now no longer will fix any problem you have whatsoever. Doesn't matter what the problem is, even if it shows the package was never delivered, amazon will not help you in any way. Their copy and paste response will always be "this item was sent to a freight forwarder and we're unable to replace or refund the item. We recommend contacting your freight forwarder for more details, as we don't have any more insight or information regarding this matter, For more information about sending items via freight forwarders, please visit our Help Pages: https://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=201117950." As well the amazon drivers either must know this or have been increasingly bad at delivering packages because the numbers of packages missing has gone up astronomically. Previously you would have very few packages missing, now the past 3 months I have had 59 "lost" packages. I now have over $15,000 of loses and some guy in Delaware is probably living the life with all the stuff he stole from me. I will survive, I have made a lot more than $15,000 over the years however just a warning to others here that things are not as they used to be and it really is no longer worth doing buring groups with all the loses piling up

« Last edited by Yo ssi on July 24, 2023, 06:47:26 PM »

Author Topic: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others  (Read 1182486 times)

Offline skyguy918

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #40 on: January 02, 2014, 10:23:00 AM »
I'm so confused by all of this. Is this a common thing in the Jewish community (or in general I guess), that people put large sums of money on their credit card for someone else, or for a business? How do the scammers (or maybe more importantly the 'legitimate' ones) convince people to do this? What's the pitch?

Offline Salty

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #41 on: January 02, 2014, 10:35:39 AM »
I'm so confused by all of this. Is this a common thing in the Jewish community (or in general I guess), that people put large sums of money on their credit card for someone else, or for a business? How do the scammers (or maybe more importantly the 'legitimate' ones) convince people to do this? What's the pitch?

Yes, common enough; we're nice people.

Offline Achas Veachas

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #42 on: January 02, 2014, 10:38:05 AM »
Yes, common enough; we're nice people.
That and you get to keep the points.

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #43 on: January 02, 2014, 10:58:39 AM »
Is there a Ribis angle? I understand that the benefit is not coming directly from the borrower but still...

Offline skyguy918

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #44 on: January 02, 2014, 11:00:25 AM »
That and you get to keep the points.
Aren't there potential ribbis issues with that too?

ETA: That was weird, don't know why it didn't warn me that someone posted while I was typing.

Offline Ergel

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #45 on: January 02, 2014, 11:02:48 AM »
Lo asrah Torah ela ribbis hbaah miloveh lamalveh
Life isn't about checking the boxes. Nobody cares.

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #46 on: January 02, 2014, 11:11:17 AM »
Aren't there potential ribbis issues with that too?

ETA: That was weird, don't know why it didn't warn me that someone posted while I was typing.
Great minds think alike.

Offline bochur123

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #47 on: January 02, 2014, 11:18:12 AM »
Theres some dude that gets a bunch of crown heights guys to email ppl to buy iphones right when they come out. I tried convincing my buddy outta of it, but he laid out $50,000 in cc.
He surprisingly got paid back
Small difference between that guy and others, others usually want you to lay out because they need more cash flow. This guy is not doing it for cash flow. There is a limit of 10 iphones per cc and he needs lots of them for his business. He pays back as soon as he receives them not after he sells them... So while there is obviously still a risk but its a bit different.

Offline Nitantnel

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #48 on: January 02, 2014, 11:20:46 AM »
@OP, how about making a poll like this one:

What was your experience when lending out your credit card?
-I never lent out my credit card.
-I lent out my credit card and did not have any issues.
-I lent out my credit card and unfortunately had serious issues.
-I am still waiting for payment on cards that I lent out to family or friends.
 
« Last Edit: January 02, 2014, 11:24:15 AM by Nitantnel »

Offline skyguy918

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #49 on: January 02, 2014, 11:25:10 AM »
Lo asrah Torah ela ribbis hbaah miloveh lamalveh
It may be ha'aromas ribbis. As always, ask your LOR.

Offline rots5

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #50 on: January 02, 2014, 12:00:25 PM »
no ribis if its a gemach type loan... i asked a LOR who is very chashuv. i went thru the halachos with him about this. as well as extracting money from the ganav with or with out him knowing.
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Offline Nitantnel

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #51 on: January 02, 2014, 12:11:03 PM »
On the note of Ribbis,

I had a friend who got scammed out of 20K. 

His father, who is a Ruv, did not let him charge his scammer the interest -- he still hopes that he will one day pay him back.

So he used his own savings to pay it up. :(

Offline Achas Veachas

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #52 on: January 02, 2014, 12:18:49 PM »
On the note of Ribbis,

I had a friend who got scammed out of 20K. 

His father, who is a Ruv, did not let him charge his scammer the interest -- he still hopes that he will one day pay him back.

So he used his own savings to pay it up. :(
Charging the interest would be clear Ribbis IINM

Offline Ergel

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #53 on: January 02, 2014, 12:19:57 PM »
Charging the interest would be clear Ribbis IINM
Avak ribbis, but yes
Life isn't about checking the boxes. Nobody cares.

Offline skyguy918

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #54 on: January 02, 2014, 12:23:23 PM »
no ribis if its a gemach type loan... i asked a LOR who is very chashuv. i went thru the halachos with him about this. as well as extracting money from the ganav with or with out him knowing.
I think there's a clear difference between someone who's doing it for another in need and someone who's doing it for the point/miles/cb profit of it.

Offline real-brisker

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #55 on: January 02, 2014, 12:31:48 PM »
I think there as important point missing here.

What is the guy spending the money on?

Meaning - is it something that if the deal goes sour there is nothing left,

Or is it, that there will be left with merchandise let's say, and it will be a hassle to sell and get rid of, but not necessarily a loss.


Offline Nitantnel

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #56 on: January 02, 2014, 12:37:26 PM »
I think there as important point missing here.

What is the guy spending the money on?

Meaning - is it something that if the deal goes sour there is nothing left,

Or is it, that there will be left with merchandise let's say, and it will be a hassle to sell and get rid of, but not necessarily a loss.



The OP mentions, and I think he makes a good point, that even such transactions can go wrong. It's worth it to be cautions when your lending money that you never had.

Offline kracked dude

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #57 on: January 02, 2014, 02:45:08 PM »
Now I'm getting really angry reading this week's Lakewood publications

Offline rots5

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #58 on: January 02, 2014, 02:48:27 PM »
I think there's a clear difference between someone who's doing it for another in need and someone who's doing it for the point/miles/cb profit of it.
so i asked the rav this. this is still called a loan! there is no interest or money made directly from the investment. this is not ribis... points. if there is direct intrest then its part of his investment and ppl can screw you for your money and wont have to pay... technically.

one receiving points is a whole different world....
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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #59 on: January 02, 2014, 05:23:22 PM »
so i asked the rav this. this is still called a loan! there is no interest or money made directly from the investment. this is not ribis... points. if there is direct intrest then its part of his investment and ppl can screw you for your money and wont have to pay... technically.

one receiving points is a whole different world....

Sorry, I did not get your point, pun intended. But can you relate?
siyag lachachma :-)