Topic Wiki

https://www.dansdeals.com/more/dans-commentary/dark-side-earning-credit-card-points-psa-dont-swipe-others/

https://www.mixcloud.com/zev-brenner/talkline-with-zev-brenner-on-credit-card-scams-affecting-the-orthodox-jewish-community/

http://podcast.headlinesbook.com/e/31616-credit-card-miles-and-points-swiping-for-rewards-buying-and-selling-miles-is-it-assur-and-a-chillul-hashem-or-a-great-way-for-a-side-parnassah/



BEFORE SWIPING FOR SOMEONE READ THIS: (first hand story)

https://forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=36812.msg2062371#msg2062371
https://www.dansdeals.com/more/dans-commentary/dark-side-earning-credit-card-points-psa-dont-swipe-others/#comment-1399884


Dan's warning to DDF:
I hope people realize that any buying group or anyone else that gets merchandise in advance of payment can go south at any time. That's even if you get a check at the time of delivery.
X-posting as I don't want anyone to say that I never put a warning here.

A story that ended up in court - https://iapps.courts.state.ny.us/nyscef/DocumentList?docketId=iRcRHuyZUdOIx69D00a5XQ==&display=all&courtType=Kings%20County%20Supreme%20Court&resultsPageNum=1


I am one of the biggest buyers for buying groups, I have done millions in transactions and have sent to every group there is over the past 3 years. Most buying groups are okay, some scan in slower than others, some pay slower than others - most will lose a few packages over the year. You can research and find which are better for you.

However there is a bigger problem now with Amazon itself.  Amazon in the past has been great with any problems always ready with a refund for lost packages even if it was thousands of dollars. Lately Amazon has clamped down and has tagged these buying groups addresses  in their systems as "freight forwarder" and now no longer will fix any problem you have whatsoever. Doesn't matter what the problem is, even if it shows the package was never delivered, amazon will not help you in any way. Their copy and paste response will always be "this item was sent to a freight forwarder and we're unable to replace or refund the item. We recommend contacting your freight forwarder for more details, as we don't have any more insight or information regarding this matter, For more information about sending items via freight forwarders, please visit our Help Pages: https://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=201117950." As well the amazon drivers either must know this or have been increasingly bad at delivering packages because the numbers of packages missing has gone up astronomically. Previously you would have very few packages missing, now the past 3 months I have had 59 "lost" packages. I now have over $15,000 of loses and some guy in Delaware is probably living the life with all the stuff he stole from me. I will survive, I have made a lot more than $15,000 over the years however just a warning to others here that things are not as they used to be and it really is no longer worth doing buring groups with all the loses piling up

« Last edited by Yo ssi on July 24, 2023, 06:47:26 PM »

Author Topic: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others  (Read 1280101 times)

Offline JMHO

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #4900 on: February 08, 2023, 03:33:59 PM »
Are there any reliable buying groups that someone can recommend?

They all start off reliable ;)

Offline Shaya E

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #4901 on: February 08, 2023, 04:41:24 PM »
Are there any reliable buying groups that someone can recommend?
I recently started using TDB and have been very happy with them. Not as many deals as some others but otherwise they've been great.

Offline DealJew

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #4902 on: February 09, 2023, 05:22:32 AM »
Are there any gains from doing buying groups besides for getting credit card points?
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Offline Shaya E

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #4903 on: February 09, 2023, 08:30:31 AM »
Are there any gains from doing buying groups besides for getting credit card points?
Well, not really (other than the occasional small commissions). But points come as SUBs, liquidating VGC/MCGC, and as regular spend points. I personally only use the if I need help reaching a SUB.

Offline AussieMan

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #4904 on: February 12, 2023, 12:29:39 PM »
auto cancel at both places

How about costco

Offline aygart

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #4905 on: February 23, 2023, 08:29:23 AM »
https://www.cnbc.com/2023/02/22/supreme-court-rules-bankruptcy-no-shield-to-fraud-debt.html

KEY POINTS

The Supreme Court unanimously ruled that a woman could not use protection under the U.S. bankruptcy code to avoid paying a debt that resulted from fraud by her partner.

The court said that the California woman, Kate Bartenwerfer, owed the debt even if she did not know or could not have known about her partner's fraud.

The 9-0 ruling, written by Justice Amy Coney Barrett, underscored a Supreme Court decision in 1885 which found that two partners in a New York wool company were liable for the debt due to the fraudulent claims of a third partner even though they were not themselves "guilty of wrong."

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Offline Euclid

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #4906 on: February 23, 2023, 08:32:54 AM »
https://www.cnbc.com/2023/02/22/supreme-court-rules-bankruptcy-no-shield-to-fraud-debt.html

KEY POINTS

The Supreme Court unanimously ruled that a woman could not use protection under the U.S. bankruptcy code to avoid paying a debt that resulted from fraud by her partner.

The court said that the California woman, Kate Bartenwerfer, owed the debt even if she did not know or could not have known about her partner's fraud.

The 9-0 ruling, written by Justice Amy Coney Barrett, underscored a Supreme Court decision in 1885 which found that two partners in a New York wool company were liable for the debt due to the fraudulent claims of a third partner even though they were not themselves "guilty of wrong."
Are you implying that if someone uses their credit card to pay for goods/services for another party that makes them partners?

Offline aygart

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #4907 on: February 23, 2023, 09:19:44 AM »
Are you implying that if someone uses their credit card to pay for goods/services for another party that makes them partners?
Maybe not partnership but rather agency



Justice Sonia Sotomayor, in a concurring opinion joined by Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson, noted that the ruling involves people who acted together in a partnership, not a situation involving fraud by a person bearing no agency or partnership relationship to the debtor.
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Offline Euclid

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #4908 on: February 23, 2023, 09:47:06 AM »
Maybe not partnership but rather agency



Justice Sonia Sotomayor, in a concurring opinion joined by Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson, noted that the ruling involves people who acted together in a partnership, not a situation involving fraud by a person bearing no agency or partnership relationship to the debtor.
Oh come on, that wasn't her point. She was saying that in this case they're akin to partners because he was doing something for her (agency) and because they were partners for other parts of life. I'd be shocked if that would apply to someone lending someone else their credit card.

Offline aygart

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #4909 on: February 23, 2023, 10:17:11 AM »
Oh come on, that wasn't her point. She was saying that in this case they're akin to partners because he was doing something for her (agency) and because they were partners for other parts of life. I'd be shocked if that would apply to someone lending someone else their credit card.

I understand, but I think it would be even more applicable to lending someone a credit card because that person cannot claim to have been uninvolved in the fraud.
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Offline CountValentine

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #4910 on: February 23, 2023, 10:20:25 AM »
Oh come on, that wasn't her point. She was saying that in this case they're akin to partners because he was doing something for her (agency) and because they were partners for other parts of life. I'd be shocked if that would apply to someone lending someone else their credit card.
So if you lend your CC out make sure you don't know them?  :)
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Offline Euclid

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #4911 on: February 23, 2023, 10:21:18 AM »
I understand, but I think it would be even more applicable to lending someone a credit card because that person cannot claim to have been uninvolved in the fraud.
right, it would definitely be circumstantial evidence to a partnership. but i dont see how that would be considered a partnership legally - theyre not using the credit card to buy something for the cardholders benefit/agency

Offline aygart

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #4912 on: February 23, 2023, 10:26:45 AM »
right, it would definitely be circumstantial evidence to a partnership. but i dont see how that would be considered a partnership legally - theyre not using the credit card to buy something for the cardholders benefit/agency

It can be worse than a partnership in some ways. Try it and report back :)
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Offline Euclid

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #4913 on: February 23, 2023, 10:28:34 AM »
It can be worse than a partnership in some ways. Try it and report back :)
in what ways?

(I would never lend someone my credit card, for other reasons. Though I do BGs, that's just dropshipping/reselling - certainly not a partnership; I consider myself a vendor.)

Offline aygart

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #4914 on: February 23, 2023, 10:29:31 AM »
in what ways?

(I would never lend someone my credit card, for other reasons. Though I do BGs, that's just dropshipping/reselling - certainly not a partnership; I consider myself a vendor.)

Because you went and allowed them to use your credit line fraudulantly.
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Offline ckmk47

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #4915 on: February 23, 2023, 10:41:13 AM »
Because you went and allowed them to use your credit line fraudulantly.
If someone does the buying and resells to the fraudster, he's not involved in the fraud. He's a reseller who sold to a crook.
If the fraudster has a third party's credit card and spends for his own benefit, is the card holder a party to the fraud?  That's the question.
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Offline aygart

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #4916 on: February 23, 2023, 11:07:54 AM »
Yes
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline aygart

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #4917 on: February 23, 2023, 11:07:54 AM »
Yes
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Offline JunkYardUnz

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PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #4918 on: February 27, 2023, 08:55:35 AM »
I have two Amazon accounts each with prime. One I use for buying groups and the other for personal items. Recently I made a mistake and loaded gift cards on to the personal account. I was able to reverse most of them except for the one that was partially used. Im trying to use up the remaining value, but the last 4 times I order something from Amazon that Im shipping to the buying groups I get the qla email exceed limits and canceling my order. I know Amazon looks at both accounts when they determine if you exceed the limit as such I have never tried to circumvent the limit as these accounts are clearly linked. Im not careful and use the same credit cards, address on both accounts. Questions 1) if you get too many qla emails does Amazon cancel your account? 2) has Amazon started to apply limit on address as Walmart, Costco, eBay?

Offline Yo ssi

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #4919 on: February 27, 2023, 09:08:35 AM »
Don't use gift cards
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