Topic Wiki

https://www.dansdeals.com/more/dans-commentary/dark-side-earning-credit-card-points-psa-dont-swipe-others/

https://www.mixcloud.com/zev-brenner/talkline-with-zev-brenner-on-credit-card-scams-affecting-the-orthodox-jewish-community/

http://podcast.headlinesbook.com/e/31616-credit-card-miles-and-points-swiping-for-rewards-buying-and-selling-miles-is-it-assur-and-a-chillul-hashem-or-a-great-way-for-a-side-parnassah/



BEFORE SWIPING FOR SOMEONE READ THIS: (first hand story)

https://forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=36812.msg2062371#msg2062371
https://www.dansdeals.com/more/dans-commentary/dark-side-earning-credit-card-points-psa-dont-swipe-others/#comment-1399884


Dan's warning to DDF:
I hope people realize that any buying group or anyone else that gets merchandise in advance of payment can go south at any time. That's even if you get a check at the time of delivery.
X-posting as I don't want anyone to say that I never put a warning here.

A story that ended up in court - https://iapps.courts.state.ny.us/nyscef/DocumentList?docketId=iRcRHuyZUdOIx69D00a5XQ==&display=all&courtType=Kings%20County%20Supreme%20Court&resultsPageNum=1


I am one of the biggest buyers for buying groups, I have done millions in transactions and have sent to every group there is over the past 3 years. Most buying groups are okay, some scan in slower than others, some pay slower than others - most will lose a few packages over the year. You can research and find which are better for you.

However there is a bigger problem now with Amazon itself.  Amazon in the past has been great with any problems always ready with a refund for lost packages even if it was thousands of dollars. Lately Amazon has clamped down and has tagged these buying groups addresses  in their systems as "freight forwarder" and now no longer will fix any problem you have whatsoever. Doesn't matter what the problem is, even if it shows the package was never delivered, amazon will not help you in any way. Their copy and paste response will always be "this item was sent to a freight forwarder and we're unable to replace or refund the item. We recommend contacting your freight forwarder for more details, as we don't have any more insight or information regarding this matter, For more information about sending items via freight forwarders, please visit our Help Pages: https://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=201117950." As well the amazon drivers either must know this or have been increasingly bad at delivering packages because the numbers of packages missing has gone up astronomically. Previously you would have very few packages missing, now the past 3 months I have had 59 "lost" packages. I now have over $15,000 of loses and some guy in Delaware is probably living the life with all the stuff he stole from me. I will survive, I have made a lot more than $15,000 over the years however just a warning to others here that things are not as they used to be and it really is no longer worth doing buring groups with all the loses piling up

« Last edited by Yo ssi on July 24, 2023, 06:47:26 PM »

Author Topic: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others  (Read 1253181 times)

Offline Lurker

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #4980 on: April 11, 2023, 02:10:21 AM »
You were running your own BG?

How long ago? Sourcing items at scale via retail arbitrage on a single IP/physical addresses is really hard these days.

Amazon is the only retailer that's somewhat lax (qla) these days, and they're also cracking down

No, buying for groups. Didn't last long. Risk/reward was not for me.
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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #4981 on: April 11, 2023, 08:45:22 AM »
No, buying for groups. Didn't last long. Risk/reward was not for me.

7 figures revenue often means 7 figures risk too…
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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #4982 on: April 11, 2023, 11:08:44 AM »
7 figures revenue often means 7 figures risk too…

Usually low-to-mid six figures of risk, but the point remains.

Pro BGs will say you gotta risk big to make big, and every business involves some degree of risk. It's true, as long as you're doing a proper risk assessment like you would getting in to any other business/investment. My personal assessment was that the variables made the risk too high.
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PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #4983 on: April 11, 2023, 11:28:02 AM »
Usually low-to-mid six figures of risk, but the point remains.

Pro BGs will say you gotta risk big to make big, and every business involves some degree of risk. It's true, as long as you're doing a proper risk assessment like you would getting in to any other business/investment. My personal assessment was that the variables made the risk too high.
BGs are great for SUBs where the risk is in the low 5 digits and the reward is 10-20% return on principal.

Though these days it's also a good way to generate a balance for 0% APR churning.

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #4984 on: April 11, 2023, 11:40:54 AM »
Though these days it's also a good way to generate a balance for 0% APR churning.

Many (most?) people have no business getting anywhere near that.
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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #4985 on: April 11, 2023, 11:47:54 AM »
Many (most?) people have no business getting anywhere near that.
Treasury bill laddering using 0% money is virtually risk free for 5% these days. CV's been talking about it

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #4986 on: April 11, 2023, 11:54:31 AM »
Many (most?) people have no business getting anywhere near that.
High overlap between those and people who shouldn't be near BGs
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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #4987 on: April 11, 2023, 11:57:20 AM »
Usually low-to-mid six figures of risk, but the point remains.

Pro BGs will say you gotta risk big to make big, and every business involves some degree of risk. It's true, as long as you're doing a proper risk assessment like you would getting in to any other business/investment. My personal assessment was that the variables made the risk too high.

The risk has definitely increased a lot from what it was years ago. More start up groups, delayed scans, delayed payments, theft, FF label, companies refusing to refund or replace items, and so on.

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #4988 on: April 11, 2023, 12:01:07 PM »
The risk has definitely increased a lot from what it was years ago. More start up groups, delayed scans, delayed payments, theft, FF label, companies refusing to refund or replace items, and so on.
It's crazy these days. Years ago when BGs were first starting: checks on the spot, $5-10+ commission on most items, tax usually paid. No idea why anyone (who's lucky enough to have a regular job) does it at large scale anymore

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #4989 on: April 11, 2023, 12:10:44 PM »
Treasury bill laddering using 0% money is virtually risk free* for 5% these days. CV's been talking about it

*for financially disciplined individuals

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #4990 on: April 11, 2023, 04:22:12 PM »
Revenue or profit? And you’re referring to people operating BGs, not people buying for them.

profit. im not referring to the BG operators

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #4991 on: April 11, 2023, 04:41:12 PM »
profit. im not referring to the BG operators
wow. so curious how. Do they have a network of tens of retail accounts/credit cards/ip addresses/physical addresses that they control? How can they do this without getting shut down??

Or is there some sort of sooper sekrit sauce?

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #4992 on: April 18, 2023, 09:02:08 PM »
Revenue or profit? And you’re referring to people operating BGs, not people buying for them.
Definitely feasible to make 6 figures in profit as a buyer. plenty people with full time jobs doing this as a side hustle and still hitting over $100k profit/year.

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #4993 on: April 18, 2023, 09:04:41 PM »
No idea why anyone (who's lucky enough to have a regular job) does it at large scale anymore
For an extra 100k+ of pocket change?

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #4994 on: April 18, 2023, 09:22:43 PM »
Definitely feasible to make 6 figures in profit as a buyer. plenty people with full time jobs doing this as a side hustle and still hitting over $100k profit/year.
Plenty of people? No chance. Unless they have some secret sauce - it's literally not possible anymore.

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #4995 on: April 18, 2023, 11:06:23 PM »
Plenty of people? No chance. Unless they have some secret sauce - it's literally not possible anymore.
I know several personally. One fellow with a full time job who showed me- he made well over 10K in March.
Quote from: YitzyS
Quotes in a signature is annoying, as it comes across as an independent post.

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #4996 on: April 18, 2023, 11:15:15 PM »
I know several personally. One fellow with a full time job who showed me- he made well over 10K in March.
I'm still calling BS - I've been doing this for a long time (8-9 years). I know how much effort it takes.
 
With the current state of stolen packages epidemic/Amazon not refunding, qla, BC, shutdowns, etc. there's no way to profit that scale of money without having a large network of Amazon accounts with 10+ Amazon CCs. And at that point it becomes a full time job to manage - there's absolutely no way they're doing this without spending 30-40+ hours a week on it. Maybe their real "full time" job is really a 10 hour/week job allowing them the time to do this.
« Last Edit: April 18, 2023, 11:25:53 PM by Euclid »

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #4997 on: April 19, 2023, 07:03:47 AM »
I'm still calling BS - I've been doing this for a long time (8-9 years). I know how much effort it takes.
 
With the current state of stolen packages epidemic/Amazon not refunding, qla, BC, shutdowns, etc. there's no way to profit that scale of money without having a large network of Amazon accounts with 10+ Amazon CCs. And at that point it becomes a full time job to manage - there's absolutely no way they're doing this without spending 30-40+ hours a week on it. Maybe their real "full time" job is really a 10 hour/week job allowing them the time to do this.

I agree 100% about the current state and the effort. Some people use to manage 100+ accounts and then were shut down and started over. I imagine a couple dozen accounts feel like a walk in the park.

As far as a job, they multitask and are online during working hours. Pretty obvious when you see them on Slack, WA, TG, Discord. Even with AUs and VNs, you do tap out CCs. Amex Amz and Affinity are now capped. Chase and Synch aren't if you can get a large CL. Qurately bonus spend for Amazon is limited. From there it's 3% cards. As far as MSR, there's other couch ways to meet it, without the hassle, if you're going to do BC deals. 

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #4998 on: April 19, 2023, 11:04:22 AM »
There is a rumor of a Ponzi scheme in Williamsburg, and this financial educated person thinks he "knows it all". Yes, business deals go sour every day and some people don't have the best intentions. Talking here about veteran business people that fell in or fell through, nobody will know for sure unless you're an insider. Rumors mean nothing.
Any update with this?

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #4999 on: April 25, 2023, 03:36:34 PM »
Has anyone used buyformeretail.com? I need to hit a credit card spednding threshold and they seem to offer above retail payouts on some items. Do they pay fast and are they reliable?
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