Topic Wiki

https://www.dansdeals.com/more/dans-commentary/dark-side-earning-credit-card-points-psa-dont-swipe-others/

https://www.mixcloud.com/zev-brenner/talkline-with-zev-brenner-on-credit-card-scams-affecting-the-orthodox-jewish-community/

http://podcast.headlinesbook.com/e/31616-credit-card-miles-and-points-swiping-for-rewards-buying-and-selling-miles-is-it-assur-and-a-chillul-hashem-or-a-great-way-for-a-side-parnassah/



BEFORE SWIPING FOR SOMEONE READ THIS: (first hand story)

https://forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=36812.msg2062371#msg2062371
https://www.dansdeals.com/more/dans-commentary/dark-side-earning-credit-card-points-psa-dont-swipe-others/#comment-1399884


Dan's warning to DDF:
I hope people realize that any buying group or anyone else that gets merchandise in advance of payment can go south at any time. That's even if you get a check at the time of delivery.
X-posting as I don't want anyone to say that I never put a warning here.

A story that ended up in court - https://iapps.courts.state.ny.us/nyscef/DocumentList?docketId=iRcRHuyZUdOIx69D00a5XQ==&display=all&courtType=Kings%20County%20Supreme%20Court&resultsPageNum=1


I am one of the biggest buyers for buying groups, I have done millions in transactions and have sent to every group there is over the past 3 years. Most buying groups are okay, some scan in slower than others, some pay slower than others - most will lose a few packages over the year. You can research and find which are better for you.

However there is a bigger problem now with Amazon itself.  Amazon in the past has been great with any problems always ready with a refund for lost packages even if it was thousands of dollars. Lately Amazon has clamped down and has tagged these buying groups addresses  in their systems as "freight forwarder" and now no longer will fix any problem you have whatsoever. Doesn't matter what the problem is, even if it shows the package was never delivered, amazon will not help you in any way. Their copy and paste response will always be "this item was sent to a freight forwarder and we're unable to replace or refund the item. We recommend contacting your freight forwarder for more details, as we don't have any more insight or information regarding this matter, For more information about sending items via freight forwarders, please visit our Help Pages: https://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=201117950." As well the amazon drivers either must know this or have been increasingly bad at delivering packages because the numbers of packages missing has gone up astronomically. Previously you would have very few packages missing, now the past 3 months I have had 59 "lost" packages. I now have over $15,000 of loses and some guy in Delaware is probably living the life with all the stuff he stole from me. I will survive, I have made a lot more than $15,000 over the years however just a warning to others here that things are not as they used to be and it really is no longer worth doing buring groups with all the loses piling up

« Last edited by Yo ssi on July 24, 2023, 06:47:26 PM »

Author Topic: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others  (Read 1211771 times)

Offline yawn

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite
  • ****
  • Join Date: May 2022
  • Posts: 264
  • Total likes: 300
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
  • Location: Lakewood
  • Programs: Hyatt Globalist
Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #5300 on: January 04, 2024, 09:11:31 AM »
This guy is a weasel, I wouldn't trust him with a penny, and I hope he doesn't get a single signup. I called him, and he sounds like a used car salesman. That said, he isn't stealing money from anyone, and while he's preying on people's ignorance, he's not exactly presenting them with a bad investment. Failing to disclose his benefits, and pretending he's really here to help you, makes him sound like a syndicator, not a thief. Let's not report him or turn him into Bernie Madoff.

Offline aygart

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 18423
  • Total likes: 14594
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 14
    • View Profile
    • Lower Watt Energy Brokers
  • Programs: www.lowerwatt.com
Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #5301 on: January 04, 2024, 09:40:26 AM »
This guy is a weasel, I wouldn't trust him with a penny, and I hope he doesn't get a single signup. I called him, and he sounds like a used car salesman. That said, he isn't stealing money from anyone, and while he's preying on people's ignorance, he's not exactly presenting them with a bad investment. Failing to disclose his benefits, and pretending he's really here to help you, makes him sound like a syndicator, not a thief. Let's not report him or turn him into Bernie Madoff.

Is he doing the spend for them?
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline AsherO

  • Global Moderator
  • Dansdeals Lifetime 30K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • **********
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 31012
  • Total likes: 7974
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 79
    • View Profile
  • Location: NYC
Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #5302 on: January 04, 2024, 09:43:52 AM »
This guy is a weasel, I wouldn't trust him with a penny, and I hope he doesn't get a single signup. I called him, and he sounds like a used car salesman. That said, he isn't stealing money from anyone, and while he's preying on people's ignorance, he's not exactly presenting them with a bad investment. Failing to disclose his benefits, and pretending he's really here to help you, makes him sound like a syndicator, not a thief. Let's not report him or turn him into Bernie Madoff.

Not a posek, but this stinks of gneivas da'as.

Bernie Madoff started somehwere too.
DDF FFB (Forum From Birth)

Offline gutlib

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite
  • ****
  • Join Date: Aug 2022
  • Posts: 468
  • Total likes: 238
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 5
    • View Profile
  • Location: Lakewood
Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #5303 on: January 04, 2024, 09:51:52 AM »
Not a posek, but this stinks of gneivas da'as.

Bernie Madoff started somehwere too.

wow, wow, I don't think it's the end of the world,
it's the first time you see someone telling you they are here to voluntarily help when they just want your money.

Offline AsherO

  • Global Moderator
  • Dansdeals Lifetime 30K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • **********
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 31012
  • Total likes: 7974
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 79
    • View Profile
  • Location: NYC
Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #5304 on: January 04, 2024, 09:54:46 AM »
wow, wow, I don't think it's the end of the world,
it's the first time you see someone telling you they are here to voluntarily help when they just want your money.

Who said it's the first time or the end of the world? This guy should be called out for what he's doing, and is being called out. That's it.
DDF FFB (Forum From Birth)

Offline Euclid

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Jun 2010
  • Posts: 5036
  • Total likes: 6190
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 5
    • View Profile
Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #5305 on: January 04, 2024, 10:01:31 AM »
Who said it's the first time or the end of the world? This guy should be called out for what he's doing, and is being called out. That's it.
Whenever a family member or friend asks me about signing up for credit cards ("what's the *best* credit card to sign up for?"), I always find them the best offer even if I don't get a referral bonus. I feel it's slightly immoral to benefit off their ignorance. Though there are plenty of blogs and websites that make a living from this (iykyk) and post SUBs that aren't near the best that can be had.

Offline yungermanchik

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Nov 2018
  • Posts: 2737
  • Total likes: 2088
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 2
    • View Profile
  • Location: Previous Signatures: If you chapped hana'ah from a post, like it; You think you know the answers and things are the way they seem.. it just ain't so -The Rebbe from Lublin-
Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #5306 on: January 04, 2024, 10:08:26 AM »


This guy has a lot of Chutzpah.
It's now the Back page ad in the Yated.
Small people talk about other people.
Average people talk about things
BIG PEOPLE TALK ABOUT IDEAS.

Offline yawn

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite
  • ****
  • Join Date: May 2022
  • Posts: 264
  • Total likes: 300
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
  • Location: Lakewood
  • Programs: Hyatt Globalist
Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #5307 on: January 04, 2024, 11:14:16 AM »
Not a posek, but this stinks of gneivas da'as.

Bernie Madoff started somehwere too.

I understand, and he should definitely be called out for that. But the fact that it is being discussed in the context of swiping recklessly for others, heís being accused of robbery and weíre discussing bringing in the authorities, I just wanted to clarify that other than geneivas daas and being a weasel, heís not (yet) a crook. If he is doing the spending for people, thatís a different story. But that doesnít seem to be the case.

Offline Mordyk

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: May 2013
  • Posts: 4137
  • Total likes: 1028
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 3
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Programs: Some of this and some of that.
Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #5308 on: January 04, 2024, 11:30:22 AM »
It's now the Back page ad in the Yated.
how are magazines so ignorant?

Offline yungermanchik

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Nov 2018
  • Posts: 2737
  • Total likes: 2088
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 2
    • View Profile
  • Location: Previous Signatures: If you chapped hana'ah from a post, like it; You think you know the answers and things are the way they seem.. it just ain't so -The Rebbe from Lublin-
Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #5309 on: January 04, 2024, 11:37:06 AM »
What exactly is the issue?
 That he doesn't have an affiliate disclosure? OK, but doesn't seem like the biggest deal to me. "You" are gaining something you wouldn't have otherwise.
 That you could do better with spousal referral? Nobody, even the best, discloses that. (besides it's not shayich for most people that this is targeted to)
 That you can do better with -fectas? It's too complicated for many people and they'd rather just the cash upfront.

So, it seems to boil down to advertising as if the "sole" purpose is your benefit, when they have a major benefit. Somewhat sleazy tactic, but gain and no real loss to the consumer. I don't like it either, but I don't see why it's such a big deal.
Small people talk about other people.
Average people talk about things
BIG PEOPLE TALK ABOUT IDEAS.

Offline yelped

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Mar 2015
  • Posts: 10969
  • Total likes: 3984
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 43
    • View Profile
Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #5310 on: January 04, 2024, 12:04:34 PM »
What exactly is the issue?
 That he doesn't have an affiliate disclosure? OK, but doesn't seem like the biggest deal to me. "You" are gaining something you wouldn't have otherwise.
 That you could do better with spousal referral? Nobody, even the best, discloses that. (besides it's not shayich for most people that this is targeted to)
 That you can do better with -fectas? It's too complicated for many people and they'd rather just the cash upfront.

So, it seems to boil down to advertising as if the "sole" purpose is your benefit, when they have a major benefit. Somewhat sleazy tactic, but gain and no real loss to the consumer. I don't like it either, but I don't see why it's such a big deal.
No, it's not as bad as a credit card farm but it is very sleazy and disgusting. Using lofty principles for your own benefit is very low. So is taking advantage of trusting Jews.

Offline Yehuda57

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Jan 2014
  • Posts: 5214
  • Total likes: 14893
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 6
    • View Profile
    • Squilled
  • Location: Brooklyn
  • Programs: Official Dansdeals salad correspondent
Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #5311 on: January 04, 2024, 12:14:43 PM »
What exactly is the issue?
 That he doesn't have an affiliate disclosure? OK, but doesn't seem like the biggest deal to me. "You" are gaining something you wouldn't have otherwise.
 That you could do better with spousal referral? Nobody, even the best, discloses that. (besides it's not shayich for most people that this is targeted to)
 That you can do better with -fectas? It's too complicated for many people and they'd rather just the cash upfront.

So, it seems to boil down to advertising as if the "sole" purpose is your benefit, when they have a major benefit. Somewhat sleazy tactic, but gain and no real loss to the consumer. I don't like it either, but I don't see why it's such a big deal.

It's specifically marketting credit cards to an ignorant audience. The amount of credit card debt accumulated by people is stagerring, and he's leading people down that path not only without warnings, but as if this is no brainer financial boon.

This is not the worst scheme in our community by a long shot, but it has all the makings of affinity fraud, and if this guy isn't already pushing more shady schemes, I have no doubt he will be in the not to distant future.

Offline yungermanchik

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Nov 2018
  • Posts: 2737
  • Total likes: 2088
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 2
    • View Profile
  • Location: Previous Signatures: If you chapped hana'ah from a post, like it; You think you know the answers and things are the way they seem.. it just ain't so -The Rebbe from Lublin-
Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #5312 on: January 04, 2024, 12:21:49 PM »
No, it's not as bad as a credit card farm but it is very sleazy and disgusting. Using lofty principles for your own benefit is very low. So is taking advantage of trusting Jews.
How is it taking advantage? They gain and the company gains.
The only issue to me seems to be the lack of microprint like this:
Many of the credit card offers that appear on this site are from credit card companies from which {} receives compensation if you are approved. Compensation impacts banner placement, but does not impact the articles posted on {}. This site does not include all credit card offers available in the marketplace.
 that it's advertised as if it's with "purely" altruistic intent.
Small people talk about other people.
Average people talk about things
BIG PEOPLE TALK ABOUT IDEAS.

Offline yawn

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite
  • ****
  • Join Date: May 2022
  • Posts: 264
  • Total likes: 300
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
  • Location: Lakewood
  • Programs: Hyatt Globalist
Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #5313 on: January 04, 2024, 01:23:48 PM »
How is it taking advantage? They gain and the company gains.
The only issue to me seems to be the lack of microprint like this:
Many of the credit card offers that appear on this site are from credit card companies from which {} receives compensation if you are approved. Compensation impacts banner placement, but does not impact the articles posted on {}. This site does not include all credit card offers available in the marketplace.
 that it's advertised as if it's with "purely" altruistic intent.
People are generally more weary of someone trying to profit off of them then someone doing them a chesed. I have friends and family that often ask me about credit cards, and I make sure to tell them when Iím receiving a referral bonus so they know to take my suggestion with a grain of salt. So itís not the self righteousness thatís bothering me, rather the assertion that he has your best interests in mind so that you trust him implicitly. Claiming that ďvolunteers ď will get back to you is blasphemous, and designed to make you think heís a chesed organisation. I also donít like that he ignores the fact that itís a business card, and likely coaches people on how to create a fake business.

Offline aygart

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 18423
  • Total likes: 14594
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 14
    • View Profile
    • Lower Watt Energy Brokers
  • Programs: www.lowerwatt.com
Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #5314 on: January 04, 2024, 05:08:55 PM »
Claiming that ďvolunteers ď will get back to you is blasphemous, and designed to make you think heís a chesed organisation.

It is likely an outright lie
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline Yo ssi

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Aug 2019
  • Posts: 6810
  • Total likes: 2640
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 60
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #5315 on: January 04, 2024, 08:34:59 PM »
Whenever a family member or friend asks me about signing up for credit cards ("what's the *best* credit card to sign up for?"), I always find them the best offer even if I don't get a referral bonus. I feel it's slightly immoral to benefit off their ignorance. Though there are plenty of blogs and websites that make a living from this (iykyk) and post SUBs that aren't near the best that can be had.
I would say it's impossible to be completely unbiased in this regard, unless you specifically don't make any money for the referral. I only know of one such website.
_    ,
' )  /
 /  / __   _   _   o
(__/_(_)  /_)_/_)_<_
 //
(/

Offline lcm

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jul 2019
  • Posts: 1671
  • Total likes: 653
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 6
    • View Profile
  • Location: 5th paragraph of https://www.dansdeals.com/sms/
Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #5316 on: January 04, 2024, 10:04:46 PM »
Thread split?

Offline WonderingYid

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jun 2021
  • Posts: 1558
  • Total likes: 299
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 3
    • View Profile
  • Location: New York
Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #5317 on: January 04, 2024, 10:13:11 PM »
This guy is a weasel, I wouldn't trust him with a penny, and I hope he doesn't get a single signup. I called him, and he sounds like a used car salesman. That said, he isn't stealing money from anyone, and while he's preying on people's ignorance, he's not exactly presenting them with a bad investment. Failing to disclose his benefits, and pretending he's really here to help you, makes him sound like a syndicator, not a thief. Let's not report him or turn him into Bernie Madoff.
He also fails to mention that you need a business to apply. (A sole prop works, but you need to be doing some sort of business)

Offline ari3

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: May 2016
  • Posts: 1358
  • Total likes: 535
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
    • View Profile
  • Location: new jersey
Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #5318 on: January 04, 2024, 11:14:39 PM »
This is not the worst scheme in our community by a long shot, but it has all the makings of affinity fraud, and if this guy isn't already pushing more shady schemes, I have no doubt he will be in the not to distant future.
It has all the makings of affinity fraud except that there is no fraud here.

His only crime is that he is insinuating that he is doing this solely for your benefit and he has ulterior motives. The same crime most blogs or websites that push credit cards and other products are doing.

Offline ari3

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: May 2016
  • Posts: 1358
  • Total likes: 535
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
    • View Profile
  • Location: new jersey
Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #5319 on: January 04, 2024, 11:15:50 PM »
I would say it's impossible to be completely unbiased in this regard, unless you specifically don't make any money for the referral. I only know of one such website.
And it's not DD