Topic Wiki

https://www.dansdeals.com/more/dans-commentary/dark-side-earning-credit-card-points-psa-dont-swipe-others/

https://www.mixcloud.com/zev-brenner/talkline-with-zev-brenner-on-credit-card-scams-affecting-the-orthodox-jewish-community/

http://podcast.headlinesbook.com/e/31616-credit-card-miles-and-points-swiping-for-rewards-buying-and-selling-miles-is-it-assur-and-a-chillul-hashem-or-a-great-way-for-a-side-parnassah/



BEFORE SWIPING FOR SOMEONE READ THIS: (first hand story)

https://forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=36812.msg2062371#msg2062371
https://www.dansdeals.com/more/dans-commentary/dark-side-earning-credit-card-points-psa-dont-swipe-others/#comment-1399884


Dan's warning to DDF:
I hope people realize that any buying group or anyone else that gets merchandise in advance of payment can go south at any time. That's even if you get a check at the time of delivery.
X-posting as I don't want anyone to say that I never put a warning here.

A story that ended up in court - https://iapps.courts.state.ny.us/nyscef/DocumentList?docketId=iRcRHuyZUdOIx69D00a5XQ==&display=all&courtType=Kings%20County%20Supreme%20Court&resultsPageNum=1


I am one of the biggest buyers for buying groups, I have done millions in transactions and have sent to every group there is over the past 3 years. Most buying groups are okay, some scan in slower than others, some pay slower than others - most will lose a few packages over the year. You can research and find which are better for you.

However there is a bigger problem now with Amazon itself.  Amazon in the past has been great with any problems always ready with a refund for lost packages even if it was thousands of dollars. Lately Amazon has clamped down and has tagged these buying groups addresses  in their systems as "freight forwarder" and now no longer will fix any problem you have whatsoever. Doesn't matter what the problem is, even if it shows the package was never delivered, amazon will not help you in any way. Their copy and paste response will always be "this item was sent to a freight forwarder and we're unable to replace or refund the item. We recommend contacting your freight forwarder for more details, as we don't have any more insight or information regarding this matter, For more information about sending items via freight forwarders, please visit our Help Pages: https://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=201117950." As well the amazon drivers either must know this or have been increasingly bad at delivering packages because the numbers of packages missing has gone up astronomically. Previously you would have very few packages missing, now the past 3 months I have had 59 "lost" packages. I now have over $15,000 of loses and some guy in Delaware is probably living the life with all the stuff he stole from me. I will survive, I have made a lot more than $15,000 over the years however just a warning to others here that things are not as they used to be and it really is no longer worth doing buring groups with all the loses piling up

« Last edited by Yo ssi on July 24, 2023, 06:47:26 PM »

Author Topic: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others  (Read 1211793 times)

Offline Cat18

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #5320 on: January 05, 2024, 01:24:18 AM »
How is it taking advantage? They gain and the company gains.
The only issue to me seems to be the lack of microprint like this:
Many of the credit card offers that appear on this site are from credit card companies from which {} receives compensation if you are approved. Compensation impacts banner placement, but does not impact the articles posted on {}. This site does not include all credit card offers available in the marketplace.
 that it's advertised as if it's with "purely" altruistic intent.

+1

I am in the minority but not think this ad is that much different than DD.

Offline WonderingYid

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #5321 on: January 05, 2024, 01:57:16 AM »
It has all the makings of affinity fraud except that there is no fraud here.

His only crime is that he is insinuating that he is doing this solely for your benefit and he has ulterior motives. The same crime most blogs or websites that push credit cards and other products are doing.
Heís targeting people that may otherwise not be on the credit card blogs.

Heís also making it seem like this is an exclusive offer, as if itís not done multiple times per year on multiple different cards.

Offline Yehuda57

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #5322 on: January 05, 2024, 10:28:39 AM »
It has all the makings of affinity fraud except that there is no fraud here.

His only crime is that he is insinuating that he is doing this solely for your benefit and he has ulterior motives. The same crime most blogs or websites that push credit cards and other products are doing.
*This* campaign stops short of actually stealing money. But it is sleezy and reeks of scammerry, and is one step away from using the same "affinity fraud" marketing style for actual fraud.

+1

I am in the minority but not think this ad is that much different than DD.

DD had advertiser and commission disclosures, they repeat the warning about using CCs as cash and paying bills on time very often*, and they speak about legitimate ways of opening a business card.

*It's been discussed on this forum in various threads if the warnings are sufficient. Even if you come down on the insufficient side, it is still worlds apart from advertising your commission based business as a community service tzedaka.

Offline yuneeq

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #5323 on: January 05, 2024, 10:38:12 AM »
What exactly is the issue?
 That he doesn't have an affiliate disclosure? OK, but doesn't seem like the biggest deal to me. "You" are gaining something you wouldn't have otherwise.
 That you could do better with spousal referral? Nobody, even the best, discloses that. (besides it's not shayich for most people that this is targeted to)
 That you can do better with -fectas? It's too complicated for many people and they'd rather just the cash upfront.

So, it seems to boil down to advertising as if the "sole" purpose is your benefit, when they have a major benefit. Somewhat sleazy tactic, but gain and no real loss to the consumer. I don't like it either, but I don't see why it's such a big deal.

Aside for the fact that no one likes blatant liars, this dude distorted and misappropriated the beautiful concept of toeles rabim and selflessness that existed in Lakewood until now. It pisses me off that I need to be more skeptical and second-guess truly altruistic people.
Visibly Jewish

Offline Euclid

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #5324 on: January 05, 2024, 10:43:18 AM »
I would say it's impossible to be completely unbiased in this regard, unless you specifically don't make any money for the referral. I only know of one such website.
Someone should open realtoelesharabim.com with an honest list, DOC style.

Hmmm, not a bad idea actually

Offline Mr. CC

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #5325 on: January 05, 2024, 10:48:48 AM »
Someone should open realtoelesharabim.com with an honest list, DOC style.

Hmmm, not a bad idea actually
Please post the link once you open it

Offline Mr. CC

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #5326 on: January 05, 2024, 10:52:17 AM »
I have seen this issue for years, when a known website that everyone here looks at didn't post any citi card deals for years. Even though they sometimes had the best offers. Because they weren't getting any commission. (Same for a Capital One, if i remember correctly)
But I still appreciate the work that the website does.

Offline Euclid

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #5327 on: January 05, 2024, 10:53:22 AM »
Please post the link once you open it
It's actually been bothering me recently that there isn't really frum resources on this topic. Though not sure having it on the public internet is the best idea

Offline gutlib

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #5328 on: January 05, 2024, 11:12:31 AM »
I have seen this issue for years, when a known website that everyone here looks at didn't post any citi card deals for years. Even though they sometimes had the best offers. Because they weren't getting any commission. (Same for a Capital One, if i remember correctly)
But I still appreciate the work that the website does.
I think it's not a good business decision, putting your customers (audience) favor first is the most important, they won't lose anything from posting it (they don't have to pay a commission..)
« Last Edit: January 05, 2024, 11:38:45 AM by gutlib »

Offline Mr. CC

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #5329 on: January 05, 2024, 11:18:42 AM »
I think it's not a good business decision, putting your customers (audience) favor first is the most important, they won't loss anything from posting it (the don't have to pay coming..)
That's why a different website mentioned upthread is what I use to check for credit card offers, the other one is good for Amazon specials.

Offline gutlib

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #5330 on: January 05, 2024, 11:39:47 AM »
That's why a different website mentioned upthread is what I use to check for credit card offers, the other one is good for Amazon specials.
which website?

Offline Yehudaa

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #5331 on: January 05, 2024, 01:00:23 PM »
I have seen this issue for years, when a known website that everyone here looks at didn't post any citi card deals for years. Even though they sometimes had the best offers. Because they weren't getting any commission. (Same for a Capital One, if i remember correctly)
But I still appreciate the work that the website does.
Assuming you're referring to a site that posts advertiser disclosures and doesn't claim to be operated "L'toeles harabim", I don't see any similarity between the guy being discussed here and a website that chose not to promote an offer that it's not paid for.

The websites post their advertiser disclosures, and never claim to be doing you a chessed (and if someone thinks they are, that's their own naivety). They don't have any obligation to post every good offer out there.

This guy claims to be doing a chessed ("L'toeles harabim" and "volunteer") and is posting no disclosures about his real motivation here.

Do you not see the difference?

Offline Yo ssi

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #5332 on: January 05, 2024, 02:07:24 PM »
It's actually been bothering me recently that there isn't really frum resources on this topic. Though not sure having it on the public internet is the best idea
I'll join your WhatsApp group ;)
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Offline Jellybelly

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #5333 on: January 06, 2024, 09:25:08 PM »
Someone should open realtoelesharabim.com with an honest list, DOC style.

Hmmm, not a bad idea actually

Iím actually pretty annoyed!
I was in the planning stages of starting a heimishe deodorant brand called Toeles Harabim and now it seems like I lost the domain name!
I guess itís back to the drawing board

Offline Euclid

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #5334 on: January 06, 2024, 09:42:15 PM »

Offline etech0

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #5335 on: January 06, 2024, 09:45:11 PM »
Oxymoron?
Comes in scents such as: kugel, cholent, kishke, pitcha
Workflowy. You won't know what you're missing until you try it.

Offline rental addict

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #5336 on: January 07, 2024, 02:42:47 AM »
Wow a whole new level of chutzpah!! Can't get over how it's letoeles harabim and zchus refuah  sheleima ppl these days are just nuts
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Offline TzviR

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #5337 on: January 07, 2024, 05:32:07 AM »
That you could do better with spousal referral? Nobody, even the best, discloses that. (besides it's not shayich for most people that this is targeted to)
-1

My  prizes from CV :)

Offline AsherO

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #5338 on: January 07, 2024, 08:46:03 AM »
Comes in scents such as: kugel, cholent, kishke, pitcha

The Zal podcast has hilarious parody sponsors such as Schmendl's Herring Deodorant, they do a little sponsorship shout out complete with parody marketing catchphrases and all.
DDF FFB (Forum From Birth)

Offline Euclid

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PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #5339 on: January 07, 2024, 09:02:43 AM »
It's actually been bothering me recently that there isn't really frum resources on this topic. Though not sure having it on the public internet is the best idea
Just as a small example, a couple weeks ago (dead now) I made $2400 from a shopping portal referral "glitch"; I didn't see it discussed on any frum resource.