PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others

[jye]

I personally know the people behind this. I think the Toeles Horabim language etc. is wrong (was originally done as a joke). I hope they do spend a few minutes telling you what can go wrong.

[TheAsh]

This is sad.

I don't play the credit card game. I'm here for the deals. And based off the experiences if my friends, I'm happier. One friend has had tons of free vacations and perks. The other is 30000 in debt.

[yk]

Unfortunately I did not follow the advice listed here, and lent what I thought was a trusted friend tens of thousands of dollars via credit card charges, for what was supposed to be a three week loan. It's been over a year and I have almost given up hope of being repaid.
Does anyone know if I can still dispute the charges with AMEX, and if yes, what the best dispute claim would be?

I have a bounced check and text messages showing intent of repayment, in case that is helpful.

Any advice would be appreciated.

[yfr bachur]

Unfortunately I did not follow the advice listed here, and lent what I thought was a trusted friend tens of thousands of dollars via credit card charges, for what was supposed to be a three week loan. It's been over a year and I have almost given up hope of being repaid.
Does anyone know if I can still dispute the charges with AMEX, and if yes, what the best dispute claim would be?

I have a bounced check and text messages showing intent of repayment, in case that is helpful.

Any advice would be appreciated.

Don't see on what legal basis you can dispute the charge - even if it was within the time... YOU ALLOWED HIM TO MAKE THE CHARGE...
CC fraud IS punishable by time...
Just bec you played one stupid game - dont play another...

[solmeir]

Where were the charges made?

[zalman2bis]

I wanted to find out this for a while.
If one lends money with a shtar with or without witnesses, or perhaps even with a text message or email that it's a loan, what recourse will that give him in court. Will any of the above work?
And if one makes a shtar regarding letting one make a charge on his card, does that work as well in court?
And if it does work, will the court seize assets on the lenders behalf?
Wondering if there are safer ways for people to do this.
(Perhaps it belongs in the lawyer thread.)

[TheAsh]

Unfortunately I did not follow the advice listed here, and lent what I thought was a trusted friend tens of thousands of dollars via credit card charges, for what was supposed to be a three week loan. It's been over a year and I have almost given up hope of being repaid.
Does anyone know if I can still dispute the charges with AMEX, and if yes, what the best dispute claim would be?

I have a bounced check and text messages showing intent of repayment, in case that is helpful.

Any advice would be appreciated.

Take him ti bes din?

[UKinNYS]

If one lends money with a shtar what recourse will that give him in court.

disclaimer: NOT legal advice
If there is Beis Din you trust and the shtar clearly set the BD as the binding legal arbitrator, they can potentially hand down a psak/settlement thats enforceable in court.

[imayid2]

Take him ti bes din?

He probably doesn’t have the money to pay up so not much BD can do about that

[AsherO]

I wanted to find out this for a while.
If one lends money with a shtar with or without witnesses, or perhaps even with a text message or email that it's a loan, what recourse will that give him in court. Will any of the above work?
And if one makes a shtar regarding letting one make a charge on his card, does that work as well in court?
And if it does work, will the court seize assets on the lenders behalf?
Wondering if there are safer ways for people to do this.
(Perhaps it belongs in the lawyer thread.)

If you're going into it with this mindset you might want to consider not lending in the first place.

[ckmk47]

If you're going into it with this mindset you might want to consider not lending in the first place.

No.
Every time you lend money you're required to  have witnesses or a signed shtar.  Otherwise, you're over lifnei iver.  Because he has no halachik reason to pay you back without proof.

[whacked1]

I wanted to find out this for a while.
If one lends money with a shtar with or without witnesses, or perhaps even with a text message or email that it's a loan, what recourse will that give him in court. Will any of the above work?
And if one makes a shtar regarding letting one make a charge on his card, does that work as well in court?
And if it does work, will the court seize assets on the lenders behalf?
Wondering if there are safer ways for people to do this.
(Perhaps it belongs in the lawyer thread.)

Sure, a recourse loan with a personal guaranty.

[AsherO]

No.
Every time you lend money you're required to  have witnesses or a signed shtar.  Otherwise, you're over lifnei iver.  Because he has no halachik reason to pay you back without proof.

I'm not saying people shouldn't lend money or make contracts. Maybe I'm misinterpreting, but from the phrasing of the questions it's almost like he's expecting to have to enforce the countract in BD to get paid.

[whacked1]

I'm not saying people shouldn't lend money or make contracts. Maybe I'm misinterpreting, but from the phrasing of the questions it's almost like he's expecting to have to enforce the countract in BD to get paid.

Hope for the best, plan for the worst

[zalman2bis]

I'm wondering in real life scenario,
If you show up in a secular court, with an email, text, shtar, or witnesses, that an individual borrowed money from you, will the judge accept that?
In most cases you can show the transfer of funds. Talking to prove it was a loan and not a gift.
And if yes, what will the court do about it?
Not looking for advice. Looking for information or DP. TIA.

[Mordyk]

I'm wondering in real life scenario,
If you show up in a secular court, with an email, text, shtar, or witnesses, that an individual borrowed money from you, will the judge accept that?
In most cases you can show the transfer of funds. Talking to prove it was a loan and not a gift.
And if yes, what will the court do about it?
Not looking for advice. Looking for information or DP. TIA.

you can't use a credit card for this use. You will be implicating yourself in fraud. Why would you do that?

[yk]

Thanks for the helpful comments above.

I reached out to an attorney who advised that while a court would take out a judgement in my favor, it would be very difficult if not impossible to collect. There may be a possibility of putting a lean on assets such as a home, but that remains to be researched some more.

In any event, hopefully this at least serves as another word of caution to anyone following to be careful and not lend more than you have. Thankfully I didn't swipe more than I had in savings and can only hope that one day I'll be repaid.

PS a buying group is also 2 months late in issuing checks, so be careful all around .

[Randomex]

(That's "lien.")

[shapsam]

you can't use a credit card for this use. You will be implicating yourself in fraud. Why would you do that?

Fraud to let someone borrow your credit card?

[TheAsh]

This ad IS in fact Letoeles Harabim. No commission.