Topic Wiki

https://www.dansdeals.com/more/dans-commentary/dark-side-earning-credit-card-points-psa-dont-swipe-others/

https://www.mixcloud.com/zev-brenner/talkline-with-zev-brenner-on-credit-card-scams-affecting-the-orthodox-jewish-community/

http://podcast.headlinesbook.com/e/31616-credit-card-miles-and-points-swiping-for-rewards-buying-and-selling-miles-is-it-assur-and-a-chillul-hashem-or-a-great-way-for-a-side-parnassah/



BEFORE SWIPING FOR SOMEONE READ THIS: (first hand story)

https://forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=36812.msg2062371#msg2062371
https://www.dansdeals.com/more/dans-commentary/dark-side-earning-credit-card-points-psa-dont-swipe-others/#comment-1399884


Dan's warning to DDF:
I hope people realize that any buying group or anyone else that gets merchandise in advance of payment can go south at any time. That's even if you get a check at the time of delivery.
X-posting as I don't want anyone to say that I never put a warning here.

A story that ended up in court - https://iapps.courts.state.ny.us/nyscef/DocumentList?docketId=iRcRHuyZUdOIx69D00a5XQ==&display=all&courtType=Kings%20County%20Supreme%20Court&resultsPageNum=1


I am one of the biggest buyers for buying groups, I have done millions in transactions and have sent to every group there is over the past 3 years. Most buying groups are okay, some scan in slower than others, some pay slower than others - most will lose a few packages over the year. You can research and find which are better for you.

However there is a bigger problem now with Amazon itself.  Amazon in the past has been great with any problems always ready with a refund for lost packages even if it was thousands of dollars. Lately Amazon has clamped down and has tagged these buying groups addresses  in their systems as "freight forwarder" and now no longer will fix any problem you have whatsoever. Doesn't matter what the problem is, even if it shows the package was never delivered, amazon will not help you in any way. Their copy and paste response will always be "this item was sent to a freight forwarder and we're unable to replace or refund the item. We recommend contacting your freight forwarder for more details, as we don't have any more insight or information regarding this matter, For more information about sending items via freight forwarders, please visit our Help Pages: https://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=201117950." As well the amazon drivers either must know this or have been increasingly bad at delivering packages because the numbers of packages missing has gone up astronomically. Previously you would have very few packages missing, now the past 3 months I have had 59 "lost" packages. I now have over $15,000 of loses and some guy in Delaware is probably living the life with all the stuff he stole from me. I will survive, I have made a lot more than $15,000 over the years however just a warning to others here that things are not as they used to be and it really is no longer worth doing buring groups with all the loses piling up

« Last edited by Yo ssi on July 24, 2023, 06:47:26 PM »

Author Topic: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others  (Read 1182731 times)

Offline JTZ

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #340 on: December 08, 2016, 06:01:26 AM »
So now please explain to me why this case is different. In simple terms please, in not to bright.
I guess I am the one who isn't that bright since I see nothing in common.

The first case is this as I se it. A gave B a check. B gave C the check. C gave B money for the check thinking the check came from B. B screwed A. A stopped payment on the check. C got screwed. The honest people (A&C) got screwed and the scammer (B) got the money.
"LESS IS MORE" It is the cumulative effect that kills deals!!! How many times do I have to say this?  >:(

Offline Emkay

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #341 on: December 08, 2016, 06:07:06 AM »
I guess I am the one who isn't that bright since I see nothing in common.

The first case is this as I se it. A gave B a check. B gave C the check. C gave B money for the check thinking the check came from B. B screwed A. A stopped payment on the check. C got screwed. The honest people (A&C) got screwed and the scammer (B) got the money.
While this wasn't the case I'll try to explain this one.
What right does A have to screw C just because B screwed him?
B rightfully got the check from A and C rightfully got it from B.

Offline JTZ

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #342 on: December 08, 2016, 06:11:56 AM »
While this wasn't the case I'll try to explain this one.
What right does A have to screw C just because B screwed him?
B rightfully got the check from A and C rightfully got it from B.
Remember what I said from the beginning. Pretend I am A. I am dealing with B and C, D, E or whoever else is involved does not matter. Now if B was screwed (this isn't the case) I would help to try and fix the situation.
"LESS IS MORE" It is the cumulative effect that kills deals!!! How many times do I have to say this?  >:(

Offline David Smith

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #343 on: December 08, 2016, 06:16:43 AM »
Remember what I said from the beginning. Pretend I am A. I am dealing with B and C, D, E or whoever else is involved does not matter. Now if B was screwed (this isn't the case) I would help to try and fix the situation.
If you spend money on your card expecting to get a paycheck to pay it off, and then you get fired, you can't decide not to pay the card just because the payment source you were counting on screwed you up.
Who do you think you are fooling? You think you are going to pull a quick one on your Creator? Good luck with that.
JTZ

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #344 on: December 08, 2016, 06:19:48 AM »
If you spend money on your card expecting to get a paycheck to pay it off, and then you get fired, you can't decide not to pay the card just because the payment source you were counting on screwed you up.
Except I didn't spend the money. I can't believe what I am hearing. This is deals 101. I guarantee my end and you guarantee your end. What is so hard to understand?
"LESS IS MORE" It is the cumulative effect that kills deals!!! How many times do I have to say this?  >:(

Offline David Smith

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #345 on: December 08, 2016, 06:21:57 AM »
Except I didn't spend the money. I can't believe what I am hearing. This is deals 101. I guarantee my end and you guarantee your end. What is so hard to understand?
You gave B permission to spend the money. The payment made to C was 100% authorized.
Who do you think you are fooling? You think you are going to pull a quick one on your Creator? Good luck with that.
JTZ

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #346 on: December 08, 2016, 06:22:23 AM »
Remember what I said from the beginning. Pretend I am A. I am dealing with B and C, D, E or whoever else is involved does not matter. Now if B was screwed (this isn't the case) I would help to try and fix the situation.
As A, you are dealing with B and thats it. You can't take away money from others.
Let's say it was actual cash and not a check/cc that B borrowed and gave to C to pay for a product/service. Can you walk over to C and demand that he give that rightfully earned cash back to you? Or strictly because you have the ability to dispute/shop check all of a sudden its ok?

Offline JTZ

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #347 on: December 08, 2016, 06:28:05 AM »
I really don't know how to respond. I can't believe what I am hearing. Is this truly how Jewish law works?
"LESS IS MORE" It is the cumulative effect that kills deals!!! How many times do I have to say this?  >:(

Offline David Smith

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #348 on: December 08, 2016, 06:34:53 AM »
I really don't know how to respond. I can't believe what I am hearing. Is this truly how Jewish law works?
In your utopian legal system, if someone doesn't pay his credit card bill the credit card company can claw back the charges from the merchants the charges were incurred by?
Who do you think you are fooling? You think you are going to pull a quick one on your Creator? Good luck with that.
JTZ

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #349 on: December 08, 2016, 06:39:20 AM »
I really don't know how to respond. I can't believe what I am hearing. Is this truly how Jewish law works?
A yes or no answer will suffice.


Let's say it was actual cash and not a check/cc that B borrowed and gave to C to pay for a product/service. Can you walk over to C and demand that he give that rightfully earned cash back to you?


Offline JTZ

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #350 on: December 08, 2016, 06:47:10 AM »
In your utopian legal system, if someone doesn't pay his credit card bill the credit card company can claw back the charges from the merchants the charges were incurred by?
You are trying to come up with a situation that justifies what you are saying. Lets stick with the facts. I will make this simple.
A makes B and AU on his CC with the guarantee B will pay all charges. A will benefit form the points earned.
B makes other deals with C.
B never pays A.
A disputes all charges.
A has nothing to do with C. What A does and how it affects C is no concern of A's.
"LESS IS MORE" It is the cumulative effect that kills deals!!! How many times do I have to say this?  >:(

Offline JTZ

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #351 on: December 08, 2016, 06:48:32 AM »
A yes or no answer will suffice.
You are trying to come up with a situation that justifies what you are saying. Lets stick with the facts. I will make this simple.
A makes B and AU on his CC with the guarantee B will pay all charges. A will benefit form the points earned.
B makes other deals with C.
B never pays A.
A disputes all charges.
A has nothing to do with C. What A does and how it affects C is no concern of A's.
"LESS IS MORE" It is the cumulative effect that kills deals!!! How many times do I have to say this?  >:(

Offline Emkay

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #352 on: December 08, 2016, 06:53:40 AM »
You are trying to come up with a situation that justifies what you are saying. Lets stick with the facts. I will make this simple.
A makes B and AU on his CC with the guarantee B will pay all charges. A will benefit form the points earned.
B makes other deals with C.
B never pays A.
A disputes all charges.
A has nothing to do with C. What A does and how it affects C is no concern of A's.
Its beyond me why you won't answer the question. But let's go on your case, for which reason is he disputing? The charges were 100% legitimate. He gave full permission to B to use his card. Call up amex with that claim and tell me how far you get.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2016, 07:01:09 AM by Emkay »

Offline David Smith

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #353 on: December 08, 2016, 06:56:37 AM »
You are trying to come up with a situation that justifies what you are saying. Lets stick with the facts. I will make this simple.
A makes B and AU on his CC with the guarantee B will pay all charges. A will benefit form the points earned.
B makes other deals with C.
B never pays A.
A disputes all charges.
A has nothing to do with C. What A does and how it affects C is no concern of A's.
Notice that you called B an Authorized user. This is exactly what A authorized B to do. On way grounds exactly is A disputing the charges as unauthorized?
Who do you think you are fooling? You think you are going to pull a quick one on your Creator? Good luck with that.
JTZ

Offline JTZ

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #354 on: December 08, 2016, 06:57:54 AM »
Its behind me why you won't answer the question. But let's go on your case, for which reason is he disputing? The charges were 100% legitimate. He gave full permission to B to use his card. Call up amex with that claim and tell me how far you get.
Again you are missing the point. Anything I do with Amex is none of your business. You agreed to pay me for those charges. You did not so my only recourse was to get the charges voided. The same if you paid me for the charges and I never paid Amex. That again is none of your business.
"LESS IS MORE" It is the cumulative effect that kills deals!!! How many times do I have to say this?  >:(

Offline David Smith

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #355 on: December 08, 2016, 07:00:15 AM »
Again you are missing the point. Anything I do with Amex is none of your business. You agreed to pay me for those charges. You did not so my only recourse was to get the charges voided. The same if you paid me for the charges and I never paid Amex. That again is none of your business.

In your utopian legal system, if someone doesn't pay his credit card bill the credit card company can claw back the charges from the merchants the charges were incurred by?
Who do you think you are fooling? You think you are going to pull a quick one on your Creator? Good luck with that.
JTZ

Offline JTZ

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #356 on: December 08, 2016, 07:04:04 AM »
I respect both of you but there is no way I would ever do a deal with either one of you (again). How about we wait until Freddie comes online. He seems to understand my way of thinking. I must be missing something.
"LESS IS MORE" It is the cumulative effect that kills deals!!! How many times do I have to say this?  >:(

Offline Emkay

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #357 on: December 08, 2016, 07:06:15 AM »
Again you are missing the point. Anything I do with Amex is none of your business. You agreed to pay me for those charges. You did not so my only recourse was to get the charges voided. The same if you paid me for the charges and I never paid Amex. That again is none of your business.
Lol. Are you that hard of hearing that you can't even hear what you're saying yourself?     Like that old analogy of ripping a hole in your cruise ship cabin causing it to sink which is ok since it has nothing to do with the next cabin. But forget about that now. I'm asking you for a huge  favor, can you give me a simple yes or no answer?


Let's say it was actual cash and not a check/cc that B borrowed and gave to C to pay for a product/service. Can you walk over to C and demand that he give that rightfully earned cash back to you?

Offline Emkay

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #358 on: December 08, 2016, 07:09:52 AM »
I respect both of you but there is no way I would ever do a deal with either one of you (again). How about we wait until Freddie comes online. He seems to understand my way of thinking. I must be missing something.
For the record (And @searchguy can vouch for that) I did take the loss and sent the money back to A. But I didn't do it because I had to, I did it because I felt bad for him and didn't want to cause him to lose.

Offline JTZ

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #359 on: December 08, 2016, 07:12:40 AM »
I'm asking you for a huge  favor, can you give me a simple yes or no answer?
We are on this road because I answered a hypothetical question in good faith and you tried and turn that around as a gothca question.

You lay out the facts of this situation and I will answer all questions related to it. How's that for an offer?  :)
"LESS IS MORE" It is the cumulative effect that kills deals!!! How many times do I have to say this?  >:(