Topic Wiki

https://www.dansdeals.com/more/dans-commentary/dark-side-earning-credit-card-points-psa-dont-swipe-others/

https://www.mixcloud.com/zev-brenner/talkline-with-zev-brenner-on-credit-card-scams-affecting-the-orthodox-jewish-community/

http://podcast.headlinesbook.com/e/31616-credit-card-miles-and-points-swiping-for-rewards-buying-and-selling-miles-is-it-assur-and-a-chillul-hashem-or-a-great-way-for-a-side-parnassah/



BEFORE SWIPING FOR SOMEONE READ THIS: (first hand story)

https://forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=36812.msg2062371#msg2062371
https://www.dansdeals.com/more/dans-commentary/dark-side-earning-credit-card-points-psa-dont-swipe-others/#comment-1399884


Dan's warning to DDF:
I hope people realize that any buying group or anyone else that gets merchandise in advance of payment can go south at any time. That's even if you get a check at the time of delivery.
X-posting as I don't want anyone to say that I never put a warning here.

A story that ended up in court - https://iapps.courts.state.ny.us/nyscef/DocumentList?docketId=iRcRHuyZUdOIx69D00a5XQ==&display=all&courtType=Kings%20County%20Supreme%20Court&resultsPageNum=1


I am one of the biggest buyers for buying groups, I have done millions in transactions and have sent to every group there is over the past 3 years. Most buying groups are okay, some scan in slower than others, some pay slower than others - most will lose a few packages over the year. You can research and find which are better for you.

However there is a bigger problem now with Amazon itself.  Amazon in the past has been great with any problems always ready with a refund for lost packages even if it was thousands of dollars. Lately Amazon has clamped down and has tagged these buying groups addresses  in their systems as "freight forwarder" and now no longer will fix any problem you have whatsoever. Doesn't matter what the problem is, even if it shows the package was never delivered, amazon will not help you in any way. Their copy and paste response will always be "this item was sent to a freight forwarder and we're unable to replace or refund the item. We recommend contacting your freight forwarder for more details, as we don't have any more insight or information regarding this matter, For more information about sending items via freight forwarders, please visit our Help Pages: https://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=201117950." As well the amazon drivers either must know this or have been increasingly bad at delivering packages because the numbers of packages missing has gone up astronomically. Previously you would have very few packages missing, now the past 3 months I have had 59 "lost" packages. I now have over $15,000 of loses and some guy in Delaware is probably living the life with all the stuff he stole from me. I will survive, I have made a lot more than $15,000 over the years however just a warning to others here that things are not as they used to be and it really is no longer worth doing buring groups with all the loses piling up

« Last edited by Yo ssi on July 24, 2023, 06:47:26 PM »

Author Topic: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others  (Read 1182538 times)

Offline Drago

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #380 on: December 08, 2016, 08:59:57 AM »
Yes. He legally, morally, and ethically has no right to dispute.

I'm curious.
In a case where B steals a CC from A and uses it at a store, does the CC issuer do a chargeback at the store? I'd imagine not.

Offline Emkay

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #381 on: December 08, 2016, 09:01:07 AM »
I'm curious.
In a case where B steals a CC from A and uses it at a store, does the CC issuer do a chargeback at the store? I'd imagine not.
Depends on their mood but many times yes, Google has many data points.

Offline yuneeq

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #382 on: December 08, 2016, 09:19:29 AM »
I'm curious.
In a case where B steals a CC from A and uses it at a store, does the CC issuer do a chargeback at the store? I'd imagine not.

I'd imagine yes.
The store should verify that the name matches the card.
Visibly Jewish

Offline Emkay

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #383 on: December 08, 2016, 09:22:10 AM »
I'd imagine yes.
The store should verify that the name matches the card.
Correct. What about an online purchase?

Offline yakov116

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #384 on: December 08, 2016, 09:23:47 AM »
I'd imagine yes.
The store should verify that the name matches the card.
IME it really depends what kind of transaction.
Depends on their mood but many times yes, Google has many data points.
+1
Money talks...mine says goodbye!

Offline yakov116

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #385 on: December 08, 2016, 09:24:25 AM »
Correct. What about an online purchase?
Most big online retailers have fraud insurance which covers for these kind of things.
Money talks...mine says goodbye!

Offline Emkay

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #386 on: December 08, 2016, 09:25:09 AM »
Most big online retailers have fraud insurance which covers for these kind of things.
And those that don't?

Offline yuneeq

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #387 on: December 08, 2016, 09:25:50 AM »
Correct. What about an online purchase?

The shipping address should match the billing address.

(Unrelated: Someone used my Kohls account and credit card to order bedsheets to my house.
I have no idea what the scam is, or how some thief in Ohio (Thanks Dan!) is gonna get the sheets.
But I can understand why the charge went through.)
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Offline JTZ

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #388 on: December 08, 2016, 09:26:20 AM »
Sounds like JTZ is saying that A can chargeback b/c he is justified in hurting B who commited the fraud.
However, Emkay is saying that A is actually hurting C who doesn't deserve to be hurt by A. B isn't being hurt by this chargeback (at least not until Emkay gets to him). Ideally, A should 'get back' at B via a different method that wouldn't hurt C.

Am I following this correctly?
For me yes. I would add that B>C is a side deal that I have nothing to do with. If what I do inadvertently hurts C you can't hold me responsible for that.
"LESS IS MORE" It is the cumulative effect that kills deals!!! How many times do I have to say this?  >:(

Offline Emkay

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #389 on: December 08, 2016, 09:26:46 AM »


The shipping address should match the billing address.


only zip needs to match usually.


Offline yuneeq

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #390 on: December 08, 2016, 09:27:52 AM »
And those that don't?

There's risk detection programs and fraud insurance.
You can get the risk detection program to tell you if you should ship the order.
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Offline Emkay

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #391 on: December 08, 2016, 09:27:59 AM »
For me yes. I would add that B>C is a side deal that I have nothing to do with. If what I do inadvertently hurts C you can't hold me responsible for that.
Leaving all other parties out of it, what will be the reason you will tell Amex that you are disputing for?
« Last Edit: December 08, 2016, 09:46:44 AM by Emkay »

Offline JTZ

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #392 on: December 08, 2016, 09:39:30 AM »
Leaving all other parties out of it, what will the reason you will tell Amex that you are disputing for?
I have no idea.
Let me clarify something. If A is disputing knowing it is not going to work and will only hurt C then it is wrong for him to do it.
"LESS IS MORE" It is the cumulative effect that kills deals!!! How many times do I have to say this?  >:(

Offline JTZ

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #393 on: December 08, 2016, 09:41:16 AM »
Can you answer this question?
Yes I can but won't until you ask in a non-condescending way.
"LESS IS MORE" It is the cumulative effect that kills deals!!! How many times do I have to say this?  >:(

Offline Emkay

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #394 on: December 08, 2016, 09:45:50 AM »
I have no idea.
Let me clarify something. If A is disputing knowing it is not going to work and will only hurt C then it is wrong for him to do it.
Of course it will work for him. He will get money to compensate for his loss.
So in summary
"A" has no legal basis to dispute.
It is against the CC terms and he will need to lie to process a dispute.
"B" does not have any money taken away from him.
"C" loses money that was rightfully earned and was authorised by AH when charged.

And yet "A" is still in the right?

Offline Hershelsdeals

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #395 on: December 08, 2016, 09:46:43 AM »
Leaving all other parties out of it, what will the reason you will tell Amex that you are disputing for?
+1
If A authorized B to use the card, A is responsible for anything that B does with it.

I know of a case where A threatened B that if he doesn't pay he will dispute the charges.

B told A that if he disputes the charges he will show American Express the emails authorizing him to use the card.

B was obviously petrified of his relationship with C.




Offline Mplace

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #396 on: December 08, 2016, 10:48:44 AM »
If there is no 'c' involved,
Does a still not have a right to dispute?
Remember, using a card to charge for cash is against the T&C..
What's your plan for yud shvat?

Offline Hershelsdeals

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #397 on: December 08, 2016, 10:58:29 AM »
If there is no 'c' involved,
Does a still not have a right to dispute?
Remember, using a card to charge for cash is against the T&C..
You mean by charging it at Mr.B's business?

Offline Mplace

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #398 on: December 08, 2016, 10:59:30 AM »
You mean by charging it at Mr.B's business?
yes
What's your plan for yud shvat?

Offline Emkay

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #399 on: December 08, 2016, 11:02:30 AM »
If there is no 'c' involved,
Does a still not have a right to dispute?
Remember, using a card to charge for cash is against the T&C..
Noone swiped for cash. If there is no "C" and the person losing from the dispute is "B" and its within the terms then its a sep case