Topic Wiki

https://www.dansdeals.com/more/dans-commentary/dark-side-earning-credit-card-points-psa-dont-swipe-others/

https://www.mixcloud.com/zev-brenner/talkline-with-zev-brenner-on-credit-card-scams-affecting-the-orthodox-jewish-community/

http://podcast.headlinesbook.com/e/31616-credit-card-miles-and-points-swiping-for-rewards-buying-and-selling-miles-is-it-assur-and-a-chillul-hashem-or-a-great-way-for-a-side-parnassah/



BEFORE SWIPING FOR SOMEONE READ THIS: (first hand story)

https://forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=36812.msg2062371#msg2062371
https://www.dansdeals.com/more/dans-commentary/dark-side-earning-credit-card-points-psa-dont-swipe-others/#comment-1399884


Dan's warning to DDF:
I hope people realize that any buying group or anyone else that gets merchandise in advance of payment can go south at any time. That's even if you get a check at the time of delivery.
X-posting as I don't want anyone to say that I never put a warning here.

A story that ended up in court - https://iapps.courts.state.ny.us/nyscef/DocumentList?docketId=iRcRHuyZUdOIx69D00a5XQ==&display=all&courtType=Kings%20County%20Supreme%20Court&resultsPageNum=1


I am one of the biggest buyers for buying groups, I have done millions in transactions and have sent to every group there is over the past 3 years. Most buying groups are okay, some scan in slower than others, some pay slower than others - most will lose a few packages over the year. You can research and find which are better for you.

However there is a bigger problem now with Amazon itself.  Amazon in the past has been great with any problems always ready with a refund for lost packages even if it was thousands of dollars. Lately Amazon has clamped down and has tagged these buying groups addresses  in their systems as "freight forwarder" and now no longer will fix any problem you have whatsoever. Doesn't matter what the problem is, even if it shows the package was never delivered, amazon will not help you in any way. Their copy and paste response will always be "this item was sent to a freight forwarder and we're unable to replace or refund the item. We recommend contacting your freight forwarder for more details, as we don't have any more insight or information regarding this matter, For more information about sending items via freight forwarders, please visit our Help Pages: https://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=201117950." As well the amazon drivers either must know this or have been increasingly bad at delivering packages because the numbers of packages missing has gone up astronomically. Previously you would have very few packages missing, now the past 3 months I have had 59 "lost" packages. I now have over $15,000 of loses and some guy in Delaware is probably living the life with all the stuff he stole from me. I will survive, I have made a lot more than $15,000 over the years however just a warning to others here that things are not as they used to be and it really is no longer worth doing buring groups with all the loses piling up

« Last edited by Yo ssi on July 24, 2023, 06:47:26 PM »

Author Topic: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others  (Read 1183576 times)

Offline JTZ

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #420 on: December 08, 2016, 11:34:03 AM »
Give me one minute.
Do you still have my card info?  :)
"LESS IS MORE" It is the cumulative effect that kills deals!!! How many times do I have to say this?  >:(

Offline Hershelsdeals

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #421 on: December 08, 2016, 11:34:03 AM »
Don't shoot the Goy.
@searchguy is Jewish, i swear

Offline JTZ

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #422 on: December 08, 2016, 11:34:57 AM »
@searchguy is Jewish, i swear
...but you quoted me.
"LESS IS MORE" It is the cumulative effect that kills deals!!! How many times do I have to say this?  >:(

Offline Emkay

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #423 on: December 08, 2016, 11:35:27 AM »
Do you still have my card info?  :)
Lol. I just called Amex, as I suspected they said no,Absolutely not. Cannot dispute a charge that you authorized.

Offline Hershelsdeals

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #424 on: December 08, 2016, 11:36:26 AM »
Lol. I just called Amex, as I suspected they said no,Absolutely not. Cannot dispute a charge that you authorized.
DROPR! Lol

Offline JTZ

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #425 on: December 08, 2016, 11:36:47 AM »
Lol. I just called Amex, as I suspected they said no,Absolutely not. Cannot dispute a charge that you authorized.
You have no business calling Amex. This is the part you are failing to understand.
"LESS IS MORE" It is the cumulative effect that kills deals!!! How many times do I have to say this?  >:(

Offline Emkay

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #426 on: December 08, 2016, 11:37:53 AM »
You have no business calling Amex. This is the part you are failing to understand.
So tell me which angle your coming from If not legal or ethical.

Offline Hershelsdeals

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #427 on: December 08, 2016, 11:40:42 AM »
Thank you for the Jewish law perspective. Now I understand why some can't understand what I am saying.  :)

It's not Jewish law, it's utter b*******

Jewish law is much more complex, there are hundreds of books debating what and how Kinyan works

(No offense @searchguy)

Don't shoot the Goy.

...but you quoted me.
It was a response

Offline JTZ

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #428 on: December 08, 2016, 11:42:06 AM »
So tell me which angle your coming from If not legal or ethical.
You trying to be funny? What part of this deal is legal or ethical?

Don't have full details, but basically that person cashed out money by letting other people use "his card" and they paid him cash, he himself didn't swipe the card, basically whoever gave him cash and used "his" card is now facing disputes on their purchases, I know of a person (not personal) that got thousands locked in his PayPal account because he used "this persons" card on his account and since the charge was disputed as unauthorized, PayPal locked all his funds...
"LESS IS MORE" It is the cumulative effect that kills deals!!! How many times do I have to say this?  >:(

Offline Super Speed

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #429 on: December 08, 2016, 11:46:17 AM »
Thank you for the Jewish law perspective. Now I understand why some can't understand what I am saying.  :)
It's not just halacha it's common sense.

Offline JTZ

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #430 on: December 08, 2016, 11:47:59 AM »
It's not just halacha it's common sense.
Any religious laws and common sense are not compatible.
"LESS IS MORE" It is the cumulative effect that kills deals!!! How many times do I have to say this?  >:(

Offline SearchGuy

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #431 on: December 08, 2016, 11:48:44 AM »
@searchguy is Jewish, i swear
לֹא תִשָּׂא אֶת שֵׁם ה' אֱלֹהֶיךָ לַשָּׁוְא, כִּי לֹא יְנַקֶּה ה' אֵת אֲשֶׁר יִשָּׂא אֶת שְׁמוֹ לַשָּׁוְא.

Offline Super Speed

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #432 on: December 08, 2016, 11:49:13 AM »
I let you use my card to make a 10k purchase with a promise to pay it back. After you make the purchase you refuse to pay me. Can I dispute the charge to recoup my 10k?
Why would you be allowed to dispute it? You allowed me to use your card and now you want to take the money from the person I used it by? Come to me to take the money not the person I spent it by.

Offline Hershelsdeals

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #433 on: December 08, 2016, 11:50:27 AM »
לֹא תִשָּׂא אֶת שֵׁם ה' אֱלֹהֶיךָ לַשָּׁוְא, כִּי לֹא יְנַקֶּה ה' אֵת אֲשֶׁר יִשָּׂא אֶת שְׁמוֹ לַשָּׁוְא.
This deserves its own thread

Offline Emkay

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #434 on: December 08, 2016, 11:51:33 AM »


You trying to be funny? What part of this deal is legal or ethical?

Don't have full details, but basically that person cashed out money by letting other people use "his card" and they paid him cash, he himself didn't swipe the card, basically whoever gave him cash and used "his" card is now facing disputes on their purchases, I know of a person (not personal) that got thousands locked in his PayPal account because he used "this persons" card on his account and since the charge was disputed as unauthorized, PayPal locked all his funds...

Did you not follow the discussion? ? That wasn't the case. Either way he still wouldn't be allowed to in this case. We aren't discussing the legal aspects to that point rather if that dispute was allowed. Even in a case where everything is illegal doesnt make the last illegal act magically okay.

Offline cholent

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #435 on: December 08, 2016, 11:52:08 AM »
I explained it many times. The deal is between A&B. B is trying to scam A so A has the right to do whatever needs to be done to recoup the loss.

That's the part I can't agree with. He has the right to do plenty to B to recoup his loss, but no one ever has a right to do "whatever needs to be done" as a blanket exemption just because he was scammed.

And as others have said, what was the reason he gave the cc company for disputing the charge? Since the service was provided and the card was authorized at the time he must have lied to successfully dispute. Why does he have a right to lie to the cc on a dispute to get back funds from a third party just because B scammed him?
Don't ask stupid questions and you won't get stupid answers

Offline JTZ

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #436 on: December 08, 2016, 11:52:54 AM »
Why would you be allowed to dispute it? You allowed me to use your card and now you want to take the money from the person I used it by? Come to me to take the money not the person I spent it by.
Lets just say Amex allows the dispute. Am I within my rights to dispute it since you tried to scam me?
"LESS IS MORE" It is the cumulative effect that kills deals!!! How many times do I have to say this?  >:(

Offline JTZ

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #437 on: December 08, 2016, 11:55:01 AM »
And as others have said, what was the reason he gave the cc company for disputing the charge? Since the service was provided and the card was authorized at the time he must have lied to successfully dispute. Why does he have a right to lie to the cc on a dispute to get back funds from a third party just because B scammed him?
You are all missing the point. The deal is between A & B. B has no right to say a dispute is not right. B is the scammer.
"LESS IS MORE" It is the cumulative effect that kills deals!!! How many times do I have to say this?  >:(

Offline Super Speed

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #438 on: December 08, 2016, 11:57:04 AM »
Lets just say Amex allows the dispute. Am I within my rights to dispute it since you tried to scam me?
No
Do whatever you need to do to get your money back directly from B. By disputing it you're taking money from C who received it rightfully.

Offline cholent

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #439 on: December 08, 2016, 11:57:54 AM »
You are all missing the point. The deal is between A & B. B has no right to say a dispute is not right. B is the scammer.

B is not the one saying the dispute is not right. C is the one saying that. He is a third party who is left holding the bag despite having processed an authorized transaction and providing the service.
Don't ask stupid questions and you won't get stupid answers