Topic Wiki

https://www.dansdeals.com/more/dans-commentary/dark-side-earning-credit-card-points-psa-dont-swipe-others/

https://www.mixcloud.com/zev-brenner/talkline-with-zev-brenner-on-credit-card-scams-affecting-the-orthodox-jewish-community/

http://podcast.headlinesbook.com/e/31616-credit-card-miles-and-points-swiping-for-rewards-buying-and-selling-miles-is-it-assur-and-a-chillul-hashem-or-a-great-way-for-a-side-parnassah/



BEFORE SWIPING FOR SOMEONE READ THIS: (first hand story)

https://forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=36812.msg2062371#msg2062371
https://www.dansdeals.com/more/dans-commentary/dark-side-earning-credit-card-points-psa-dont-swipe-others/#comment-1399884


Dan's warning to DDF:
I hope people realize that any buying group or anyone else that gets merchandise in advance of payment can go south at any time. That's even if you get a check at the time of delivery.
X-posting as I don't want anyone to say that I never put a warning here.

A story that ended up in court - https://iapps.courts.state.ny.us/nyscef/DocumentList?docketId=iRcRHuyZUdOIx69D00a5XQ==&display=all&courtType=Kings%20County%20Supreme%20Court&resultsPageNum=1


I am one of the biggest buyers for buying groups, I have done millions in transactions and have sent to every group there is over the past 3 years. Most buying groups are okay, some scan in slower than others, some pay slower than others - most will lose a few packages over the year. You can research and find which are better for you.

However there is a bigger problem now with Amazon itself.  Amazon in the past has been great with any problems always ready with a refund for lost packages even if it was thousands of dollars. Lately Amazon has clamped down and has tagged these buying groups addresses  in their systems as "freight forwarder" and now no longer will fix any problem you have whatsoever. Doesn't matter what the problem is, even if it shows the package was never delivered, amazon will not help you in any way. Their copy and paste response will always be "this item was sent to a freight forwarder and we're unable to replace or refund the item. We recommend contacting your freight forwarder for more details, as we don't have any more insight or information regarding this matter, For more information about sending items via freight forwarders, please visit our Help Pages: https://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=201117950." As well the amazon drivers either must know this or have been increasingly bad at delivering packages because the numbers of packages missing has gone up astronomically. Previously you would have very few packages missing, now the past 3 months I have had 59 "lost" packages. I now have over $15,000 of loses and some guy in Delaware is probably living the life with all the stuff he stole from me. I will survive, I have made a lot more than $15,000 over the years however just a warning to others here that things are not as they used to be and it really is no longer worth doing buring groups with all the loses piling up

« Last edited by Yo ssi on July 24, 2023, 06:47:26 PM »

Author Topic: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others  (Read 1182261 times)

Offline Emkay

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #440 on: December 08, 2016, 11:58:00 AM »
You are all missing the point. The deal is between A & B. B has no right to say a dispute is not right. B is the scammer.
Noone said "B" has a right.

Offline Emkay

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #441 on: December 08, 2016, 11:58:46 AM »
Lets just say Amex allows the dispute. Am I within my rights to dispute it since you tried to scam me?
If they allowed it they would cover it instead of taking it from "C".

Offline Super Speed

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #442 on: December 08, 2016, 11:58:50 AM »
You are all missing the point. The deal is between A & B. B has no right to say a dispute is not right. B is the scammer.
You seem to be the only one missing the point

Offline mmgfarb

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PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #443 on: December 08, 2016, 12:03:33 PM »
I'm not going to take sides here, I just want to point out that the halachos governing this kind of thing (CCs and such) aren't so simple and not everybody agrees about who's money or is and who is liable if things go wrong. There's a reason we have a בת דין  to go to with these things, which knows the intricacies of the laws and can decide on the correct course of action.
"JS [is] a fetid cesspool of unvarnished linguistic manure, with lots of useless drivel and post-padding." -Moishebatchy

Offline JTZ

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #444 on: December 08, 2016, 12:04:33 PM »
Noone said "B" has a right.
Thank you!
The deal between B/C is a side deal I have no knowledge of or responsibility for. C as no standing in the deal between A/B. SOP and common sense.
"LESS IS MORE" It is the cumulative effect that kills deals!!! How many times do I have to say this?  >:(

Offline cholent

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #445 on: December 08, 2016, 12:06:15 PM »
Thank you!
The deal between B/C is a side deal I have no knowledge of or responsibility for. C as no standing in the deal between A/B. SOP and common sense.

Since C is not part of the deal and has no standing, A has no right to dispute the charge made to C
Don't ask stupid questions and you won't get stupid answers

Offline JTZ

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #446 on: December 08, 2016, 12:06:31 PM »
I'm not going to take sides here, I just want to point out that the halachos governing this kind of thing (CCs and such) aren't so simple and not everybody agrees about who's money or is and who is liable if things go wrong. There's a reason we have a בת דין  to go to with these things, which knows the intricacies of the laws and can decide on the correct course of action.
According to Jewish law I have no input what so ever. Just don't think that is the way it works outside of Jewish law.
"LESS IS MORE" It is the cumulative effect that kills deals!!! How many times do I have to say this?  >:(

Offline JTZ

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #447 on: December 08, 2016, 12:07:05 PM »
Since C is not part of the deal and has no standing, A has no right to dispute the charge made to C
I have no knowledge C was involved.
"LESS IS MORE" It is the cumulative effect that kills deals!!! How many times do I have to say this?  >:(

Offline mmgfarb

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #448 on: December 08, 2016, 12:08:55 PM »
According to Jewish law I have no input what so ever. Just don't think that is the way it works outside of Jewish law.
I'm not purporting that it works the same way, my point was directed at those who were claiming to know how a Jewish court would rule.
"JS [is] a fetid cesspool of unvarnished linguistic manure, with lots of useless drivel and post-padding." -Moishebatchy

Offline JTZ

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #449 on: December 08, 2016, 12:11:47 PM »
You seem to be the only one missing the point
Coming from you now I know I am right.  :)
"LESS IS MORE" It is the cumulative effect that kills deals!!! How many times do I have to say this?  >:(

Offline Emkay

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #450 on: December 08, 2016, 12:15:03 PM »
I have no knowledge C was involved.
Who do you think charged the card? A snowy owl? Dont purposely pretend to be stupid.
According to Jewish law I have no input what so ever. Just don't think that is the way it works outside of Jewish law.
I already spoke to 2 lawyers and Amex. Tell me where your backing is.

Thank you!
The deal between B/C is a side deal I have no knowledge of or responsibility for. C as no standing in the deal between A/B. SOP and common sense.
Correct "C" is not standing in the way. As you said a million times, the deal is between A/B and only A/B. And disputing it is not between A/B. I'm not sure if you're trolling or honestly have a hard time grasping this concept but I'll try to type up a longer detailed explanation later.

Offline Emkay

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #451 on: December 08, 2016, 12:18:14 PM »
I'm not going to take sides here, I just want to point out that the halachos governing this kind of thing (CCs and such) aren't so simple and not everybody agrees about who's money or is and who is liable if things go wrong. There's a reason we have a בת דין  to go to with these things, which knows the intricacies of the laws and can decide on the correct course of action.
Do your rounds. Find me someone that argues.

Offline JTZ

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #452 on: December 08, 2016, 12:20:17 PM »
Tell me where your backing is.
Thousands of deals I have done over the years. Or ask members here if I haven't been more than fair with them.

Maybe we are talking about two different deals. That is why I asked you to post the facts. I might have the facts wrong.
"LESS IS MORE" It is the cumulative effect that kills deals!!! How many times do I have to say this?  >:(

Offline mmgfarb

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #453 on: December 08, 2016, 12:20:46 PM »
Do your rounds. Find me someone that argues.
Argues about what? I wasn't saying anything about this case in particular.
"JS [is] a fetid cesspool of unvarnished linguistic manure, with lots of useless drivel and post-padding." -Moishebatchy

Offline Emkay

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #454 on: December 08, 2016, 12:22:40 PM »


Thousands of deals I have done over the years. Or ask members here if I haven't been more than fair with them.

Maybe we are talking about two different deals. That is why I asked you to post the facts. I might have the facts wrong.

That doesnt prove anything is right.
I didnt say you are unfair. I don't think you ever had a case like this with a member. I said my details but even the case your were arguing was wrong.

Offline JTZ

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #455 on: December 08, 2016, 12:25:42 PM »
I didnt say you are unfair.
You sure think my position here is unfair.
"LESS IS MORE" It is the cumulative effect that kills deals!!! How many times do I have to say this?  >:(

Offline Emkay

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #456 on: December 08, 2016, 12:27:34 PM »
You sure think my position here is unfair.
Yes. But I have no knowledge of you actually doing thievery like that.
I think your fine and upstanding and that your arguments are based on ignorance or a mental block and not corruption.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2016, 12:31:26 PM by Emkay »

Offline JTZ

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #457 on: December 08, 2016, 12:31:27 PM »
But I have no knowledge of you actually doing thievery like that.
I get scammed by B and try to be made whole and that is thievery. WOW!
"LESS IS MORE" It is the cumulative effect that kills deals!!! How many times do I have to say this?  >:(

Offline Emkay

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #458 on: December 08, 2016, 12:32:03 PM »
I get scammed by B and try to be made whole and that is thievery. WOW!
Yup. If you take money from C.
Also see edit.

Offline JTZ

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #459 on: December 08, 2016, 12:39:19 PM »
Yup. If you take money from C.
Also see edit.
I seen your edit.  :)
You keep trying to make this about C. This is a deal between A/B. C, D, E or anyone else is between B and them. This is how it works in all the deals I have been involved in. I understand you don't agree but don't try and tell it didn't work this way in all the deals I have done.
"LESS IS MORE" It is the cumulative effect that kills deals!!! How many times do I have to say this?  >:(