Topic Wiki

https://www.dansdeals.com/more/dans-commentary/dark-side-earning-credit-card-points-psa-dont-swipe-others/

https://www.mixcloud.com/zev-brenner/talkline-with-zev-brenner-on-credit-card-scams-affecting-the-orthodox-jewish-community/

http://podcast.headlinesbook.com/e/31616-credit-card-miles-and-points-swiping-for-rewards-buying-and-selling-miles-is-it-assur-and-a-chillul-hashem-or-a-great-way-for-a-side-parnassah/



BEFORE SWIPING FOR SOMEONE READ THIS: (first hand story)

https://forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=36812.msg2062371#msg2062371
https://www.dansdeals.com/more/dans-commentary/dark-side-earning-credit-card-points-psa-dont-swipe-others/#comment-1399884


Dan's warning to DDF:
I hope people realize that any buying group or anyone else that gets merchandise in advance of payment can go south at any time. That's even if you get a check at the time of delivery.
X-posting as I don't want anyone to say that I never put a warning here.

A story that ended up in court - https://iapps.courts.state.ny.us/nyscef/DocumentList?docketId=iRcRHuyZUdOIx69D00a5XQ==&display=all&courtType=Kings%20County%20Supreme%20Court&resultsPageNum=1


I am one of the biggest buyers for buying groups, I have done millions in transactions and have sent to every group there is over the past 3 years. Most buying groups are okay, some scan in slower than others, some pay slower than others - most will lose a few packages over the year. You can research and find which are better for you.

However there is a bigger problem now with Amazon itself.  Amazon in the past has been great with any problems always ready with a refund for lost packages even if it was thousands of dollars. Lately Amazon has clamped down and has tagged these buying groups addresses  in their systems as "freight forwarder" and now no longer will fix any problem you have whatsoever. Doesn't matter what the problem is, even if it shows the package was never delivered, amazon will not help you in any way. Their copy and paste response will always be "this item was sent to a freight forwarder and we're unable to replace or refund the item. We recommend contacting your freight forwarder for more details, as we don't have any more insight or information regarding this matter, For more information about sending items via freight forwarders, please visit our Help Pages: https://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=201117950." As well the amazon drivers either must know this or have been increasingly bad at delivering packages because the numbers of packages missing has gone up astronomically. Previously you would have very few packages missing, now the past 3 months I have had 59 "lost" packages. I now have over $15,000 of loses and some guy in Delaware is probably living the life with all the stuff he stole from me. I will survive, I have made a lot more than $15,000 over the years however just a warning to others here that things are not as they used to be and it really is no longer worth doing buring groups with all the loses piling up

« Last edited by Yo ssi on July 24, 2023, 06:47:26 PM »

Author Topic: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others  (Read 1182477 times)

Offline Emkay

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #460 on: December 08, 2016, 12:43:23 PM »
I seen your edit.  :)
You keep trying to make this about C. This is a deal between A/B. C, D, E or anyone else is between B and them. This is how it works in all the deals I have been involved in. I understand you don't agree but don't try and tell it didn't work this way in all the deals I have done.
We are going in circles. If this is about A and B then why can A take money from a 3rd party? Take it only from B. But I said that a dozen times and you didn't understand so I don't expect that to change now.

Offline TimT

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #461 on: December 08, 2016, 12:44:40 PM »
And I always thought ABC was easy as 123.
Go figure

Offline JTZ

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #462 on: December 08, 2016, 12:46:23 PM »
We are going in circles. If this is about A and B then why can A take money from a 3rd party? Take it only from B. But I said that a dozen times and you didn't understand so I don't expect that to change now.
If this is between A/B then you can't bring in a third person? Hello is anybody home?  :)

Do you think it is possible you are biased in this case?
"LESS IS MORE" It is the cumulative effect that kills deals!!! How many times do I have to say this?  >:(

Offline Emkay

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #463 on: December 08, 2016, 12:51:35 PM »


If this is between A/B then you can't bring in a third person? Hello is anybody home?
You can bring in a 3rd unrelated person to cover your cost ? Can you shoplift from Target to make up for the loss?

Offline David Smith

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #464 on: December 08, 2016, 01:05:06 PM »
I let you use my card to make a 10k purchase with a promise to pay it back. After you make the purchase you refuse to pay me. Can I dispute the charge to recoup my 10k?
If I swindle you and then go deposit the money in a bank account, you can't go hold up the bank to recoup your loss. You would be what would be described as a bank robber. The judge wouldn't be impressed by your unrelated loss due to the swindler.
Who do you think you are fooling? You think you are going to pull a quick one on your Creator? Good luck with that.
JTZ

Online Yehuda57

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #465 on: December 08, 2016, 01:09:12 PM »
If this is between A/B then you can't bring in a third person? Hello is anybody home?  :)

Do you think it is possible you are biased in this case?

You are having an intense mental block here. I am not biased to either side, and initially was on your side.

The case was between A and B. B screwed A. B is the scumbag. A now has to recoup his losses. So A screwed C. That's fair to you?


Offline JoeyShmoe

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #466 on: December 08, 2016, 01:13:39 PM »
If this is between A/B then you can't bring in a third person? Hello is anybody home?  :)

Do you think it is possible you are biased in this case?
Do realize that Emkay is claiming to be C in this scenario? Which why is why he's asking if A can go to a third party to recoup his loss. Since as far as A is concerned C and Target owe him the money equally, and by A (falsely) disputing the charge (and recouping the money from B) C (or in the scenario Target) took a loss. Does that make sense to you?

If I give you my CC with express permission to spend $10k at Target as long as you pay me back the $10k in a week, and you go ahead and spend the money and don't pay me back, can I dispute the charge and have Target incur a $10k loss???
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Offline JTZ

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #467 on: December 08, 2016, 01:21:06 PM »
The case was between A and B. B screwed A. B is the scumbag. A now has to recoup his losses. So A screwed C. That's fair to you?
B screwed C not me. There is no C to me. What deals B made on the side is his responsibility not mine. Common sense. What if C then made a deal with D, D>E and so on. This is insane.

Please if you think I am going to be responsible for your side deals DON"T EVER DEAL WITH ME!!!
"LESS IS MORE" It is the cumulative effect that kills deals!!! How many times do I have to say this?  >:(

Offline A3

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #468 on: December 08, 2016, 01:24:08 PM »
Any transaction that B made with the card should be voidable. As there was never any good faith on Bs part.

Take it to bais din and supply the results please

Online Yehuda57

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #469 on: December 08, 2016, 01:24:59 PM »
B screwed C not me. There is no C to me. What deals B made on the side is his responsibility not mine. Common sense. What if C then made a deal with D, D>E and so on. This is insane.

Please if you think I am going to be responsible for your side deals DON"T EVER DEAL WITH ME!!!

There is no C to you. fine. Where are you recouping your losses from?

Offline JTZ

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #470 on: December 08, 2016, 01:28:24 PM »
There is no C to you. fine. Where are you recouping your losses from?
From the CC dispute for the charges B made and did not pay me for.
"LESS IS MORE" It is the cumulative effect that kills deals!!! How many times do I have to say this?  >:(

Online Yehuda57

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #471 on: December 08, 2016, 01:30:15 PM »
From the CC dispute for the charges B made and did not pay me for.

So you are making CC pay you for what B screwed you?

You authorized B to use your card. the charge was valid. On what basis are you disputing?

Offline David Smith

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #472 on: December 08, 2016, 01:31:37 PM »
From the CC dispute for the charges B made and did not pay me for.

In your utopian legal system, if someone doesn't pay his credit card bill the credit card company can claw back the charges from the merchants the charges were incurred by?


This whole thing is very strange to me. You are the last member on the forum I'd expect this from.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2016, 01:35:30 PM by David Smith »
Who do you think you are fooling? You think you are going to pull a quick one on your Creator? Good luck with that.
JTZ

Offline yuneeq

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #473 on: December 08, 2016, 01:32:46 PM »
From the CC dispute for the charges B made and did not pay me for.

You authorized B to make the charges.
If you tell amex you authorized B  there will be no dispute against C.

After seeing so many people explain it to you very clearly, I see don't have a mental block, it's more of a mental barrier!
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Offline JoeyShmoe

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #474 on: December 08, 2016, 01:33:00 PM »
From the CC dispute for the charges B made and did not pay me for.
Since when can you dispute an authorized CC charge with the reason being "the guy I authorized to use my CC didn't pay me back"?
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Offline JTZ

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #475 on: December 08, 2016, 01:36:22 PM »
So you are making CC pay you for what B screwed you?

You authorized B to use your card. the charge was valid. On what basis are you disputing?
1 - I would not dispute the charge
2 - A has a right to dispute the charge. Is it ethical or legal, no.
3 - Unless someone lays out the facts of this case ethical and legal went out the window at step one.
4 - B is the scammer. Focus on B and stop making A out to be the scammer.
"LESS IS MORE" It is the cumulative effect that kills deals!!! How many times do I have to say this?  >:(

Offline JTZ

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #476 on: December 08, 2016, 01:37:18 PM »
Since when can you dispute an authorized CC charge with the reason being "the guy I authorized to use my CC didn't pay me back"?
I never said it would work.
"LESS IS MORE" It is the cumulative effect that kills deals!!! How many times do I have to say this?  >:(

Offline JTZ

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #477 on: December 08, 2016, 01:39:48 PM »
You authorized B to make the charges.
If you tell amex you authorized B  there will be no dispute against C.

After seeing so many people explain it to you very clearly, I see don't have a mental block, it's more of a mental barrier!
Who in their right mind would ever tell Amex that?

That is like telling Amex. I am going to add an AU for this scam I have going on. Will that be OK?
How about I am going to add 99 fake AU's to scam you on your own offers?
"LESS IS MORE" It is the cumulative effect that kills deals!!! How many times do I have to say this?  >:(

Offline Emkay

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #478 on: December 08, 2016, 01:40:04 PM »
B screwed C not me. There is no C to me. What deals B made on the side is his responsibility not mine. Common sense. What if C then made a deal with D, D>E and so on. This is insane.

Please if you think I am going to be responsible for your side deals DON"T EVER DEAL WITH ME!!!
You haven't answered under what reason you are filing your dispute.

Offline David Smith

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #479 on: December 08, 2016, 01:40:15 PM »


2 - A has a right to dispute the charge. Is it ethical or legal, no.
If you agree he has no legal or moral right, then what right does he have?
Who do you think you are fooling? You think you are going to pull a quick one on your Creator? Good luck with that.
JTZ