Topic Wiki

https://www.dansdeals.com/more/dans-commentary/dark-side-earning-credit-card-points-psa-dont-swipe-others/

https://www.mixcloud.com/zev-brenner/talkline-with-zev-brenner-on-credit-card-scams-affecting-the-orthodox-jewish-community/

http://podcast.headlinesbook.com/e/31616-credit-card-miles-and-points-swiping-for-rewards-buying-and-selling-miles-is-it-assur-and-a-chillul-hashem-or-a-great-way-for-a-side-parnassah/



BEFORE SWIPING FOR SOMEONE READ THIS: (first hand story)

https://forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=36812.msg2062371#msg2062371
https://www.dansdeals.com/more/dans-commentary/dark-side-earning-credit-card-points-psa-dont-swipe-others/#comment-1399884


Dan's warning to DDF:
I hope people realize that any buying group or anyone else that gets merchandise in advance of payment can go south at any time. That's even if you get a check at the time of delivery.
X-posting as I don't want anyone to say that I never put a warning here.

A story that ended up in court - https://iapps.courts.state.ny.us/nyscef/DocumentList?docketId=iRcRHuyZUdOIx69D00a5XQ==&display=all&courtType=Kings%20County%20Supreme%20Court&resultsPageNum=1


I am one of the biggest buyers for buying groups, I have done millions in transactions and have sent to every group there is over the past 3 years. Most buying groups are okay, some scan in slower than others, some pay slower than others - most will lose a few packages over the year. You can research and find which are better for you.

However there is a bigger problem now with Amazon itself.  Amazon in the past has been great with any problems always ready with a refund for lost packages even if it was thousands of dollars. Lately Amazon has clamped down and has tagged these buying groups addresses  in their systems as "freight forwarder" and now no longer will fix any problem you have whatsoever. Doesn't matter what the problem is, even if it shows the package was never delivered, amazon will not help you in any way. Their copy and paste response will always be "this item was sent to a freight forwarder and we're unable to replace or refund the item. We recommend contacting your freight forwarder for more details, as we don't have any more insight or information regarding this matter, For more information about sending items via freight forwarders, please visit our Help Pages: https://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=201117950." As well the amazon drivers either must know this or have been increasingly bad at delivering packages because the numbers of packages missing has gone up astronomically. Previously you would have very few packages missing, now the past 3 months I have had 59 "lost" packages. I now have over $15,000 of loses and some guy in Delaware is probably living the life with all the stuff he stole from me. I will survive, I have made a lot more than $15,000 over the years however just a warning to others here that things are not as they used to be and it really is no longer worth doing buring groups with all the loses piling up

« Last edited by Yo ssi on July 24, 2023, 06:47:26 PM »

Author Topic: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others  (Read 1183369 times)

Offline JoeyShmoe

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #480 on: December 08, 2016, 01:40:50 PM »
This
I never said it would work.
controdicts this
1 - I would not dispute the charge
2 - A has a right to dispute the charge. Is it ethical or legal, no.
3 - Unless someone lays out the facts of this case ethical and legal went out the window at step one.
4 - B is the scammer. Focus on B and stop making A out to be the scammer.
If it wouldn't work then it means he doesn't have the right to do it.

Nobody's disagreeing with you that B is the scammer and thief in this situation, neither is anybody disagreeing with you that A isn't the scammer here. The disagreement is, that the fact that A was scammed by B doesn't mean he can go ahead and "pay it forward" by disputing (wrongfully, as you agreed) the charge and leaving C hanging. A should use other means of recouping his money without screwing over C...
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Offline Yehuda57

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #481 on: December 08, 2016, 01:42:14 PM »
1 - I would not dispute the charge
2 - A has a right to dispute the charge. Is it ethical or legal, no.
3 - Unless someone lays out the facts of this case ethical and legal went out the window at step one.
4 - B is the scammer. Focus on B and stop making A out to be the scammer.

1) Very good. So you agree with everyone.
2) I'm not sure how you are defining "right" if not legal or ethically.
3) The facts have been laid out clearly. I was initially on your side, but switched once it was clarified.
4) Good. So we all agree. B is the scammer. We know that. The focus on C only happened because he is on the thread. He is involved whether you or A likes it or not.

It's really not that difficult.

Offline JTZ

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #482 on: December 08, 2016, 01:44:28 PM »
If you agree he has no legal or moral right, then what right does he have?
The same right members here have to add 99 AU's. What A does with the CC company is his business. What members do here with AU's is their business.
Look at it this way. The deal works and everyone gets paid except A does not pay the CC company. Does B or C have anything to say about it?
"LESS IS MORE" It is the cumulative effect that kills deals!!! How many times do I have to say this?  >:(

Offline JTZ

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #483 on: December 08, 2016, 01:45:38 PM »
4) Good. So we all agree. B is the scammer. We know that. The focus on C only happened because he is on the thread. He is involved whether you or A likes it or not.

It's really not that difficult.
...and there lies the problem. Objectivity just went out the window.
"LESS IS MORE" It is the cumulative effect that kills deals!!! How many times do I have to say this?  >:(

Offline David Smith

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #484 on: December 08, 2016, 01:46:27 PM »


Look at it this way. The deal works and everyone gets paid except A does not pay the CC company. Does B or C have anything to say about it?
Aha. That's the difference. Everybody is not getting paid. The money you are getting back you are taking straight from C's pocket.
Who do you think you are fooling? You think you are going to pull a quick one on your Creator? Good luck with that.
JTZ

Offline JTZ

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #485 on: December 08, 2016, 01:47:40 PM »
1) Very good. So you agree with everyone.
Wrong. I wouldn't do it because that is my choice. I don't have a problem if the person in A's position disputed it.
"LESS IS MORE" It is the cumulative effect that kills deals!!! How many times do I have to say this?  >:(

Offline JTZ

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #486 on: December 08, 2016, 01:49:21 PM »
Aha. That's the difference. Everybody is not getting paid. The money you are getting back you are taking straight from C's pocket.
You missed the point again. What I do with Amex is none of anyone's business. It is not part of the deal. It is unfortunate there will be collateral damage to someone unknown to me.
"LESS IS MORE" It is the cumulative effect that kills deals!!! How many times do I have to say this?  >:(

Offline Emkay

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #487 on: December 08, 2016, 01:51:31 PM »


How about we wait until Freddie comes online. He seems to understand my way of thinking. I must be missing something.
Is he purposely avoiding this thread?

Offline yakov116

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #488 on: December 08, 2016, 01:53:46 PM »
Is he purposely avoiding this thread?

No he is purposely avoiding stupidity
Money talks...mine says goodbye!

Offline JTZ

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #489 on: December 08, 2016, 01:54:05 PM »
How about this. I am going to assume I am not understanding the deal fully. If someone wants to lay it out I will be more than happy to comment on it further. Until that happens I am waiting for my translator.  :)
"LESS IS MORE" It is the cumulative effect that kills deals!!! How many times do I have to say this?  >:(

Offline JTZ

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #490 on: December 08, 2016, 01:54:25 PM »
No he is purposely avoiding stupidity
That's a real nice comment.
"LESS IS MORE" It is the cumulative effect that kills deals!!! How many times do I have to say this?  >:(

Offline Emkay

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #491 on: December 08, 2016, 01:54:42 PM »
No he is purposely avoiding stupidity
That never stopped him yet.

Offline Yehuda57

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #492 on: December 08, 2016, 01:57:30 PM »
...and there lies the problem. Objectivity just went out the window.

Wow, so I am biased to some dude I never met more than you - another guy I've never met?

Wrong. I wouldn't do it because that is my choice. I don't have a problem if the person in A's position disputed it.
The same right members here have to add 99 AU's. What A does with the CC company is his business. What members do here with AU's is their business.
Look at it this way. The deal works and everyone gets paid except A does not pay the CC company. Does B or C have anything to say about it?

So, forget C.
A has the right to dispute with the CC - In other words, A disputing the charges, and keeping the money that was paid for a legitimate charge?

Can we agree that that is theft from the CC company, if not C?

Offline JTZ

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #493 on: December 08, 2016, 01:59:11 PM »
Wow, so I am biased to some dude I never met more than you - another guy I've never met?
Are you forgetting something about the two of us?  :)
"LESS IS MORE" It is the cumulative effect that kills deals!!! How many times do I have to say this?  >:(

Offline yuneeq

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #494 on: December 08, 2016, 02:01:05 PM »
Let's make this personal.

Your wife uses your credit card to buy clothing from the local Mom and Pop shop- final sale.
You don't like what she bought, you file a dispute with your credit card?

Visibly Jewish

Offline Yehuda57

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #495 on: December 08, 2016, 02:01:42 PM »
Are you forgetting something about the two of us?  :)

Pretty sure I'm not?

Offline Super Speed

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #496 on: December 08, 2016, 02:08:56 PM »
If this is between A/B then you can't bring in a third person? Hello is anybody home?  :)

Do you think it is possible you are biased in this case?
How can you blame it on biased when everyone seems to think like him besides for you?

Offline JTZ

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #497 on: December 08, 2016, 02:10:03 PM »
How can you blame it on biased when everyone seems to think like him besides for you?
ROFLMAO!
"LESS IS MORE" It is the cumulative effect that kills deals!!! How many times do I have to say this?  >:(

Offline Yehuda57

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #498 on: December 08, 2016, 02:14:00 PM »
Are you forgetting something about the two of us?  :)
Seriously, what am I forgetting?

Offline JTZ

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #499 on: December 08, 2016, 02:18:23 PM »
Seriously, what am I forgetting?
If we were both standing on the corner and you wanted to know were the nearest Shul was which one of us would you ask?  :)
"LESS IS MORE" It is the cumulative effect that kills deals!!! How many times do I have to say this?  >:(