Topic Wiki

https://www.dansdeals.com/more/dans-commentary/dark-side-earning-credit-card-points-psa-dont-swipe-others/

https://www.mixcloud.com/zev-brenner/talkline-with-zev-brenner-on-credit-card-scams-affecting-the-orthodox-jewish-community/

http://podcast.headlinesbook.com/e/31616-credit-card-miles-and-points-swiping-for-rewards-buying-and-selling-miles-is-it-assur-and-a-chillul-hashem-or-a-great-way-for-a-side-parnassah/



BEFORE SWIPING FOR SOMEONE READ THIS: (first hand story)

https://forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=36812.msg2062371#msg2062371
https://www.dansdeals.com/more/dans-commentary/dark-side-earning-credit-card-points-psa-dont-swipe-others/#comment-1399884


Dan's warning to DDF:
I hope people realize that any buying group or anyone else that gets merchandise in advance of payment can go south at any time. That's even if you get a check at the time of delivery.
X-posting as I don't want anyone to say that I never put a warning here.

A story that ended up in court - https://iapps.courts.state.ny.us/nyscef/DocumentList?docketId=iRcRHuyZUdOIx69D00a5XQ==&display=all&courtType=Kings%20County%20Supreme%20Court&resultsPageNum=1


I am one of the biggest buyers for buying groups, I have done millions in transactions and have sent to every group there is over the past 3 years. Most buying groups are okay, some scan in slower than others, some pay slower than others - most will lose a few packages over the year. You can research and find which are better for you.

However there is a bigger problem now with Amazon itself.  Amazon in the past has been great with any problems always ready with a refund for lost packages even if it was thousands of dollars. Lately Amazon has clamped down and has tagged these buying groups addresses  in their systems as "freight forwarder" and now no longer will fix any problem you have whatsoever. Doesn't matter what the problem is, even if it shows the package was never delivered, amazon will not help you in any way. Their copy and paste response will always be "this item was sent to a freight forwarder and we're unable to replace or refund the item. We recommend contacting your freight forwarder for more details, as we don't have any more insight or information regarding this matter, For more information about sending items via freight forwarders, please visit our Help Pages: https://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=201117950." As well the amazon drivers either must know this or have been increasingly bad at delivering packages because the numbers of packages missing has gone up astronomically. Previously you would have very few packages missing, now the past 3 months I have had 59 "lost" packages. I now have over $15,000 of loses and some guy in Delaware is probably living the life with all the stuff he stole from me. I will survive, I have made a lot more than $15,000 over the years however just a warning to others here that things are not as they used to be and it really is no longer worth doing buring groups with all the loses piling up

« Last edited by Yo ssi on July 24, 2023, 06:47:26 PM »

Author Topic: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others  (Read 1182480 times)

Offline yakov116

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #560 on: December 08, 2016, 07:34:37 PM »
He already did. The question is can he stop payment. Please say no.  :)
No
Money talks...mine says goodbye!

Offline JTZ

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #561 on: December 08, 2016, 07:40:08 PM »
No
If this is a serious answer then I understand the problem.
"LESS IS MORE" It is the cumulative effect that kills deals!!! How many times do I have to say this?  >:(

Offline David Smith

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #562 on: December 08, 2016, 07:54:21 PM »
Can someone check on DS for me to see if he is OK. I would hate to think he is afraid to answer the question.
He is uninvolved in this particular story.
Who do you think you are fooling? You think you are going to pull a quick one on your Creator? Good luck with that.
JTZ

Online aygart

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #563 on: December 08, 2016, 07:55:50 PM »
Wow did I miss something here. No way I can figure this story out at this point. It looks more like it belongs in Yevamos than on DDF.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline JTZ

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #564 on: December 08, 2016, 07:57:17 PM »
He is uninvolved in this particular story.
That hasn't stop you up to this point, why now?
"LESS IS MORE" It is the cumulative effect that kills deals!!! How many times do I have to say this?  >:(

Offline David Smith

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #565 on: December 08, 2016, 08:03:03 PM »
That hasn't stop you up to this point, why now?
Because I didn't know the answer, as you were asking for details of a case I don't know.
Who do you think you are fooling? You think you are going to pull a quick one on your Creator? Good luck with that.
JTZ

Offline JTZ

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #566 on: December 08, 2016, 08:05:55 PM »
Because I didn't know the answer, as you were asking for details of a case I don't know.
Here are the details: http://forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=36812.msg1616400#msg1616400
Is this deal 100% legal and ethical?
"LESS IS MORE" It is the cumulative effect that kills deals!!! How many times do I have to say this?  >:(

Offline David Smith

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #567 on: December 08, 2016, 08:06:44 PM »
Who do you think you are fooling? You think you are going to pull a quick one on your Creator? Good luck with that.
JTZ

Offline cholent

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #568 on: December 08, 2016, 08:08:00 PM »
Here are the details: http://forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=36812.msg1616400#msg1616400
Is this deal 100% legal and ethical?
Stupid or poorly thought out, yes. Legal and ethical, also yes
Don't ask stupid questions and you won't get stupid answers

Offline Freddie

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #569 on: December 08, 2016, 10:23:43 PM »
I respect both of you but there is no way I would ever do a deal with either one of you (again). How about we wait until Freddie comes online. He seems to understand my way of thinking. I must be missing something.

I'm just catching up on this. Hold on.

Offline 12HRS

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #570 on: December 08, 2016, 11:03:32 PM »
I'm just catching up on this. Hold on.

Now we just need jsk....

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #571 on: December 08, 2016, 11:24:43 PM »
And I always thought ABC was easy as 123.
Go figure
Are you familiar with the famous Crown Heights song Oholei Torah Chai?
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Offline SearchGuy

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #572 on: December 08, 2016, 11:38:23 PM »
Congrats! This thread just doubled its posts in 24 hours!

Offline Freddie

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #573 on: December 08, 2016, 11:44:14 PM »
Okay, I am aware of the basics of what went on here the past few days. So what am I supposed to say? Who I think is right? I have no idea. I don't know Choshen Mishpat. I'd ask a rav.

Offline Zkpncs48

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #574 on: December 08, 2016, 11:44:31 PM »
I'm going to play devil's advocate here, though I do agree with Emkay for the most part.
A might be able to make the case that he only authorized B to make the charges with the assumption that he would pay him back. Or at the very least have every intention of paying back.
Being that B charged the card with (seemingly) no intention to pay back it can be considered an unauthorized use of the card and therefore make him able to recoup his losses from C.
Just a thought...

Offline SearchGuy

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #575 on: December 08, 2016, 11:53:13 PM »
I'm going to play devil's advocate here, though I do agree with Emkay for the most part.
A might be able to make the case that he only authorized B to make the charges with the assumption that he would pay him back. Or at the very least have every intention of paying back.
Being that B charged the card with (seemingly) no intention to pay back it can be considered an unauthorized use of the card and therefore make him able to recoup his losses from C.
Just a thought...
Take it like C is holding cash, how can he take this cash out of him?

Offline Zkpncs48

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #576 on: December 08, 2016, 11:56:32 PM »
Take it like C is holding cash, how can he take this cash out of him?
If said cash was stolen from A would be an example of a case in which he would be within his rights to take this cash out of him

Offline SearchGuy

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #577 on: December 09, 2016, 12:01:41 AM »
If said cash was stolen from A would be an example of a case in which he would be within his rights to take this cash out of him
If I steal cash from you and go and pay off my credit card bill, you have the right tof go to chase and say hey the money Searchguy just gave you is really mine? No! You call police on the thief and Chase keeps the money

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #578 on: December 09, 2016, 12:02:37 AM »
I'm going to play devil's advocate here, though I do agree with Emkay for the most part.
A might be able to make the case that he only authorized B to make the charges with the assumption that he would pay him back. Or at the very least have every intention of paying back.
Being that B charged the card with (seemingly) no intention to pay back it can be considered an unauthorized use of the card and therefore make him able to recoup his losses from C.
Just a thought...
If A gave his wallet full of cash to B to hold for a week.
B returned the wallet empty. (And meanwhile used the $1,000 bill that was in the wallet to pay C, a sum that B rightfully owed C).
A spots the $1,000 bill that was in the wallet in C's possession.
Can A rightfully grab it from C?
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Offline LoLo

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #579 on: December 09, 2016, 12:02:45 AM »
I'm going to play devil's advocate here, though I do agree with Emkay for the most part.
A might be able to make the case that he only authorized B to make the charges with the assumption that he would pay him back. Or at the very least have every intention of paying back.
Being that B charged the card with (seemingly) no intention to pay back it can be considered an unauthorized use of the card and therefore make him able to recoup his losses from C.
Just a thought...
In this case every single billing dispute could be filed as authorized.

"I only authorized the merchant to charge my card in exchange for a red scarf not a blue one."