Topic Wiki

https://www.dansdeals.com/more/dans-commentary/dark-side-earning-credit-card-points-psa-dont-swipe-others/

https://www.mixcloud.com/zev-brenner/talkline-with-zev-brenner-on-credit-card-scams-affecting-the-orthodox-jewish-community/

http://podcast.headlinesbook.com/e/31616-credit-card-miles-and-points-swiping-for-rewards-buying-and-selling-miles-is-it-assur-and-a-chillul-hashem-or-a-great-way-for-a-side-parnassah/



BEFORE SWIPING FOR SOMEONE READ THIS: (first hand story)

https://forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=36812.msg2062371#msg2062371
https://www.dansdeals.com/more/dans-commentary/dark-side-earning-credit-card-points-psa-dont-swipe-others/#comment-1399884


Dan's warning to DDF:
I hope people realize that any buying group or anyone else that gets merchandise in advance of payment can go south at any time. That's even if you get a check at the time of delivery.
X-posting as I don't want anyone to say that I never put a warning here.

A story that ended up in court - https://iapps.courts.state.ny.us/nyscef/DocumentList?docketId=iRcRHuyZUdOIx69D00a5XQ==&display=all&courtType=Kings%20County%20Supreme%20Court&resultsPageNum=1


I am one of the biggest buyers for buying groups, I have done millions in transactions and have sent to every group there is over the past 3 years. Most buying groups are okay, some scan in slower than others, some pay slower than others - most will lose a few packages over the year. You can research and find which are better for you.

However there is a bigger problem now with Amazon itself.  Amazon in the past has been great with any problems always ready with a refund for lost packages even if it was thousands of dollars. Lately Amazon has clamped down and has tagged these buying groups addresses  in their systems as "freight forwarder" and now no longer will fix any problem you have whatsoever. Doesn't matter what the problem is, even if it shows the package was never delivered, amazon will not help you in any way. Their copy and paste response will always be "this item was sent to a freight forwarder and we're unable to replace or refund the item. We recommend contacting your freight forwarder for more details, as we don't have any more insight or information regarding this matter, For more information about sending items via freight forwarders, please visit our Help Pages: https://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=201117950." As well the amazon drivers either must know this or have been increasingly bad at delivering packages because the numbers of packages missing has gone up astronomically. Previously you would have very few packages missing, now the past 3 months I have had 59 "lost" packages. I now have over $15,000 of loses and some guy in Delaware is probably living the life with all the stuff he stole from me. I will survive, I have made a lot more than $15,000 over the years however just a warning to others here that things are not as they used to be and it really is no longer worth doing buring groups with all the loses piling up

« Last edited by Yo ssi on July 24, 2023, 06:47:26 PM »

Author Topic: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others  (Read 1182580 times)

Offline Freddie

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #580 on: December 09, 2016, 12:03:45 AM »
This thread reminds me of the old joke. What's the difference between a shlemiel and a shlimazil?

A shlemiel is the guy who spills the soup at the fancy party. A shlimazil is the one that the soup gets spilled on. ...and a nudnik is the one who asks what kind of soup it was.


Offline Zkpncs48

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #581 on: December 09, 2016, 12:09:02 AM »
If I steal cash from you and go and pay off my credit card bill, you have the right tof go to chase and say hey the money Searchguy just gave you is really mine? No! You call police on the thief and Chase keeps the money
of course I can! It's my money.

Offline Zkpncs48

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #582 on: December 09, 2016, 12:10:46 AM »
If A gave his wallet full of cash to B to hold for a week.
B returned the wallet empty. (And meanwhile used the $1,000 bill that was in the wallet to pay C, a sum that B rightfully owed C).
A spots the $1,000 bill that was in the wallet in C's possession.
Can A rightfully grab it from C?
Yes why not? It's his money...
B cannot transfer ownership of my money whether he owes money to someone or not
« Last Edit: December 09, 2016, 12:14:39 AM by Zkpncs48 »

Offline Zkpncs48

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #583 on: December 09, 2016, 12:12:59 AM »
In this case every single billing dispute could be filed as authorized.

"I only authorized the merchant to charge my card in exchange for a red scarf not a blue one."
If you actually thought you were buying a red scarf, that should be a legitimate claim. No?

Offline SearchGuy

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #584 on: December 09, 2016, 12:13:41 AM »
of course I can! It's my money.
good morning to reality

Offline ExGingi

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #585 on: December 09, 2016, 12:15:16 AM »
Let me play devil's (don't take this personally @jtz) advocate for a second:

If A gave B fake currency and then B paid C with said fake currency. When C tries to deposit it in the bank, it is discovered to be fake. C loses, as he credited B's account for the payment. B never paid A back, but A doesn't care, as the currency he gave B was fake.

So while B thought that he screwed A, essentially he screwed C. Now C has a legitimate claim against B, or against A? I would say he only has a claim against B.

I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Offline SearchGuy

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #586 on: December 09, 2016, 12:16:53 AM »
Let me play devil's (don't take this personally @jtz) advocate for a second:

If A gave B fake currency and then B paid C with said fake currency. When C tries to deposit it in the bank, it is discovered to be fake. C loses, as he credited B's account for the payment. B never paid A back, but A doesn't care, as the currency he gave B was fake.

So while B thought that he screwed A, essentially he screwed C. Now C has a legitimate claim against B, or against A? I would say he only has a claim against B.
A totally different situation... OMG this deserves a new thread

Offline Emkay

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #587 on: December 09, 2016, 01:30:32 AM »
Now this is different than the original story. That is why I wanted the facts. This now sounds like a three way deal.
No its not. I reiterated this many times. I said he does not know C yet authorized and was aware of every swipe. Don't make yourself sound sillier by claiming the story now changed.

Offline Freddie

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #588 on: December 09, 2016, 01:33:19 AM »
No its not. I reiterated this many times. I said he does not know C yet authorized and was aware of every swipe. Don't make yourself sound sillier by claiming the story now changed.

The question is what vengeance hath thou wrought upon A for disputing the charges?

Offline Emkay

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #589 on: December 09, 2016, 01:37:25 AM »
The question is what vengeance hath thou wrought upon A for disputing the charges?
Absolutely none. While I vehemently disagree with what he did and technically could have fought it and won, I understand why he did it and felt slightly bad for his situation. I gave him back the money and will attempt to extricate the money from B.

Offline username

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #590 on: December 09, 2016, 01:38:34 AM »
Welcome to friday. Now this thread will really take off..especially appropriate for this week, were we read about the birth of Ruvain, Shimon, and Levi.
^^^

Offline Freddie

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #591 on: December 09, 2016, 01:40:20 AM »
Absolutely none. While I vehemently disagree with what he did and technically could have fought it and won, I understand why he did it and felt slightly bad for his situation. I gave him back the money and will attempt to extricate the money from B.

So what does this mean?

The after story doesn't matter as much. Nobody screws with me and gets away with it....

Offline Emkay

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #592 on: December 09, 2016, 01:42:53 AM »
So what does this mean?
B is screwing with me currently.

Offline username

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #593 on: December 09, 2016, 01:43:41 AM »
Mr. B needs to watch out, as Emkay will get even with him.
^^^

Offline JTZ

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #594 on: December 09, 2016, 01:45:35 AM »
No its not. I reiterated this many times. I said he does not know C yet authorized and was aware of every swipe. Don't make yourself sound sillier by claiming the story now changed.
I asked many times for you to spell out the facts. Final you spell out the facts and it was different than the original story as I seen it. I said from the beginning this is an A/B deal and C doesn't matter. Now it is an A/B/C deal (three way) and C does matter. I have been called stupid, silly and a few other names. Have a nice day!!!
"LESS IS MORE" It is the cumulative effect that kills deals!!! How many times do I have to say this?  >:(

Offline JTZ

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #595 on: December 09, 2016, 01:46:17 AM »
So what does this mean?
Talk is tough.  :)
"LESS IS MORE" It is the cumulative effect that kills deals!!! How many times do I have to say this?  >:(

Offline Cheesecake

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #596 on: December 09, 2016, 01:48:03 AM »
I asked many times for you to spell out the facts. Final you spell out the facts and it was different than the original story as I seen it. I said from the beginning this is an A/B deal and C doesn't matter. Now it is an A/B/C deal (three way) and C does matter. I have been called stupid, silly and a few other names. Have a nice day!!!
Why does it matter if A knows C? He knows there is a C, so who cares who he is?

You didn't answer my straightforward question upthread. I repeat:

JTZ: Two points. Please tell me if you disagree with either.

1) The nature of a CC dispute is that the cardholder (A) is telling the CC company that the transaction in which the merchant (C) charged money to the credit card for a product or service was not legitimate.

2) In this case, the charge was legitimate.

Offline Emkay

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #597 on: December 09, 2016, 01:48:59 AM »


I asked many times for you to spell out the facts. Final you spell out the facts and it was different than the original story as I seen it. I said from the beginning this is an A/B deal and C doesn't matter. Now it is an A/B/C deal (three way) and C does matter. I have been called stupid, silly and a few other names. Have a nice day!!!

Lol. Please explain how I changed the story. As I said numerous times before I fully laid it out I was arguing in the case that was currently on the table. I said a million times he authorized the charges, what did I change now, and what did everyone else understand prior that you didn't?

Offline Emkay

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #598 on: December 09, 2016, 01:51:04 AM »
Talk is tough.  :)
I said much earlier in the thread that I was asking in what was right or wrong but not taking action on him.

Offline JTZ

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #599 on: December 09, 2016, 01:57:59 AM »

Lol. Please explain how I changed the story. As I said numerous times before I fully laid it out I was arguing in the case that was currently on the table. I said a million times he authorized the charges, what did I change now, and what did everyone else understand prior that you didn't?
Here is my original quote from how I understood the story. Not once did you lay out the facts until way later. If you would have laid them out when I asked this all would have been avoided.

I would be looking at Shimon then. He is responsible for everyone he deals with and I am responsible for everyone I deal with. SOP!
"LESS IS MORE" It is the cumulative effect that kills deals!!! How many times do I have to say this?  >:(