Topic Wiki

https://www.dansdeals.com/more/dans-commentary/dark-side-earning-credit-card-points-psa-dont-swipe-others/

https://www.mixcloud.com/zev-brenner/talkline-with-zev-brenner-on-credit-card-scams-affecting-the-orthodox-jewish-community/

http://podcast.headlinesbook.com/e/31616-credit-card-miles-and-points-swiping-for-rewards-buying-and-selling-miles-is-it-assur-and-a-chillul-hashem-or-a-great-way-for-a-side-parnassah/



BEFORE SWIPING FOR SOMEONE READ THIS: (first hand story)

https://forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=36812.msg2062371#msg2062371
https://www.dansdeals.com/more/dans-commentary/dark-side-earning-credit-card-points-psa-dont-swipe-others/#comment-1399884


Dan's warning to DDF:
Quote from: Dan on February 10, 2019, 10:47:31 PM
I hope people realize that any buying group or anyone else that gets merchandise in advance of payment can go south at any time. That's even if you get a check at the time of delivery.
Quote from: Dan on February 10, 2019, 10:51:55 PM
X-posting as I don't want anyone to say that I never put a warning here.

A story that ended up in court - https://iapps.courts.state.ny.us/nyscef/DocumentList?docketId=iRcRHuyZUdOIx69D00a5XQ==&display=all&courtType=Kings%20County%20Supreme%20Court&resultsPageNum=1


Quote from: halperng on July 24, 2023, 06:00:12 PM
I am one of the biggest buyers for buying groups, I have done millions in transactions and have sent to every group there is over the past 3 years. Most buying groups are okay, some scan in slower than others, some pay slower than others - most will lose a few packages over the year. You can research and find which are better for you.

However there is a bigger problem now with Amazon itself.  Amazon in the past has been great with any problems always ready with a refund for lost packages even if it was thousands of dollars. Lately Amazon has clamped down and has tagged these buying groups addresses  in their systems as "freight forwarder" and now no longer will fix any problem you have whatsoever. Doesn't matter what the problem is, even if it shows the package was never delivered, amazon will not help you in any way. Their copy and paste response will always be "this item was sent to a freight forwarder and we're unable to replace or refund the item. We recommend contacting your freight forwarder for more details, as we don't have any more insight or information regarding this matter, For more information about sending items via freight forwarders, please visit our Help Pages: https://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=201117950." As well the amazon drivers either must know this or have been increasingly bad at delivering packages because the numbers of packages missing has gone up astronomically. Previously you would have very few packages missing, now the past 3 months I have had 59 "lost" packages. I now have over $15,000 of loses and some guy in Delaware is probably living the life with all the stuff he stole from me. I will survive, I have made a lot more than $15,000 over the years however just a warning to others here that things are not as they used to be and it really is no longer worth doing buring groups with all the loses piling up

« Last edited by Yo ssi on July 24, 2023, 06:47:26 PM »

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Author Topic: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others  (Read 1199763 times)

Offline mmgfarb

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Re: Buying Groups
« Reply #1080 on: June 17, 2018, 09:27:38 AM »
Quote from: ChaimMoskowitz on June 17, 2018, 05:26:52 AM
Understand but the question was using another businesses tax exempt number. So you have a tax exempt number for your business? Does each person need their own reselling business and tax exempt number?
I think that, since the merchandise is going directly to the business, you don't need a personal tax ID number. If you were acting as a business that was then reselling it to them you might need one but that's not what's really going on.
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Offline tzifanya54

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Re: Buying Groups
« Reply #1081 on: June 17, 2018, 09:34:49 AM »
Quote from: mmgfarb on June 17, 2018, 09:27:38 AM
I think that, since the merchandise is going directly to the business, you don't need a personal tax ID number. If you were acting as a business that was then reselling it to them you might need one but that's not what's really going on.
Not so simple especially since many will be part of several groups and will sell to the highest bidder so to speak. I personally use my own tax ID when doing these things.
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Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: Buying Groups
« Reply #1082 on: June 17, 2018, 10:55:03 AM »
Quote from: Markmann20 on June 17, 2018, 09:21:01 AM
The reason buyers on the buying group are able to and allowed to use the tax codes is cause the item is suppose to come to that buying group and then be used for resell which the taxes will be paid for. The buying group business is 100% legal nothing shady
I would be careful making a statement like this. Are you aware BB requires each induvial to have their own tax exempt certificate/card? At the very least you are violating their policy and both sides might be committing fraud without even realizing it.

PSA: Don't ask your LOR but a qualified CPA. Otherwise one day you might hear Bubba asking you to pick up the soap.  :)
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Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #1083 on: June 17, 2018, 10:58:22 AM »
Quote from: Markmann20 on June 17, 2018, 09:21:01 AM
The buying group business is 100% legal nothing shady
Wow!
 I'm actually shocked they "featured" themselves in a newspaper.
Oh well...
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Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #1084 on: June 17, 2018, 11:01:34 AM »
Quote from: ChaimMoskowitz on June 17, 2018, 10:55:03 AM
I would be careful making a statement like this. Are you aware BB requires each induvial to have their own tax exempt certificate/card? At the very least you are violating their policy and both sides might be committing fraud without even realizing it.

PSA: Don't ask your LOR but a qualified CPA. Otherwise one day you might hear Bubba asking you to pick up the soap.  :)
If this is not fraud on a grand scale I don't know what is.. And I'm not referring to only the sales tax issue.
The whole entire concept. But some people don't see the forest...
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Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #1085 on: June 17, 2018, 11:05:33 AM »
Quote from: churnbabychurn on June 17, 2018, 11:01:34 AM
If this is not fraud on a grand scale I don't know what is.. And I'm not referring to only the sales tax issue.
The whole entire concept. But some people don't see the forest...
Not sure I am following. Were does fraud come in with buying and reselling?
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Offline yhaller14

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #1086 on: June 17, 2018, 11:07:32 AM »
Quote from: ChaimMoskowitz on June 17, 2018, 10:55:03 AM
I would be careful making a statement like this. Are you aware BB requires each induvial to have their own tax exempt certificate/card? At the very least you are violating their policy and both sides might be committing fraud without even realizing it.
What would the issue be?! You are legitimately buying for them with their tax ID?! Not for yourself for them and they give you commission which means they pay you... and  usually when someone pays you its because  technically you work for them......
How is it different then using a schools tax exempt code to buy something for the school?!? Your not keeping the stuff, your giving it to the ones whose code it is
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Offline yhaller14

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #1087 on: June 17, 2018, 11:08:34 AM »
Quote from: ChaimMoskowitz on June 17, 2018, 11:05:33 AM
Not sure I am following. Were does fraud come in with buying and reselling?
Haters gonna hate...... :)
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Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #1088 on: June 17, 2018, 11:11:29 AM »
Quote from: ChaimMoskowitz on June 17, 2018, 11:05:33 AM
Not sure I am following. Were does fraud come in with buying and reselling?
They are defrauding bb on their sales potential, market growth strategy etc etc. Their deals are not intended to be abused and manipulated by a Rico organiy out to rip off corporations,by mobilizing an army of con artists to deplete their limited discounted merchandise etc etc. Bla bla
I'm not a prosecutor or lawyer,but you gotta be really naive if you think no laws are being broken or bent
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Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #1089 on: June 17, 2018, 11:16:18 AM »
Quote from: yhaller14 on June 17, 2018, 11:07:32 AM
What would the issue be?! You are legitimately buying for them with their tax ID?!
You are not an employee of the company. If you are then that is another whole can of worms.

Any CPA's want to chime in?
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Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #1090 on: June 17, 2018, 11:18:46 AM »
Quote from: churnbabychurn on June 17, 2018, 11:11:29 AM
They are defrauding bb on their sales potential, market growth strategy etc etc. Their deals are not intended to be abused and manipulated by a Rico organiy out to rip off corporations,by mobilizing an army of con artists to deplete their limited discounted merchandise etc etc. Bla bla
I'm not a prosecutor or lawyer,but you gotta be really naive if you think no laws are being broken or bent
Ouch!!! BB employees/management are well aware of what is going on. They look the other way to get great numbers.
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Offline yhaller14

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #1091 on: June 17, 2018, 11:20:12 AM »


Quote from: ChaimMoskowitz on June 17, 2018, 11:16:18 AM
You are not an employee of the company.

Volunteering..... doing it to help out are fellow Jews
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Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #1092 on: June 17, 2018, 11:22:26 AM »
Quote from: ChaimMoskowitz on June 17, 2018, 11:18:46 AM
Ouch!!! BB employees/management are well aware of what is going on. They look the other way to get great numbers.
There is someone at bb who defined the max per customer for a reason. The fact that a sales team rewarded on volume, looks the other way does not make it any better..
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Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #1093 on: June 17, 2018, 11:23:53 AM »
Quote from: yhaller14 on June 17, 2018, 11:20:12 AM

Volunteering..... doing it to help out are fellow Jews
I applaud your intentions. The problem is you could be messing up big time without realizing it. This is just a PSA to CYA.
Maybe a buying group owner will chime in and say it is not violating anything but don't hold your breath.  ;)
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Offline 12HRS

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #1094 on: June 17, 2018, 11:24:40 AM »
Quote from: churnbabychurn on June 17, 2018, 11:22:26 AM
There is someone at bb who defined the max per customer for a reason. The fact that a sales team rewarded on volume, looks the other way does not make it any better..

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bestbuy/comments/8r5d7b/these_dot_coms_are_getting_crazy/

All you need is a couple of employees acknowledging they see the massive orders and continue to ship them out and it would be impossible to prosecute. Who is the damaged party here?
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Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #1095 on: June 17, 2018, 11:24:58 AM »
Quote from: churnbabychurn on June 17, 2018, 11:22:26 AM
There is someone at bb who defined the max per customer for a reason. The fact that a sales team rewarded on volume, looks the other way does not make it any better..
Plausible deniability.  :)
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Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #1096 on: June 17, 2018, 11:26:32 AM »
Quote from: 12HRS on June 17, 2018, 11:24:40 AM
https://www.reddit.com/r/Bestbuy/comments/8r5d7b/these_dot_coms_are_getting_crazy/

All you need is a couple of employees acknowledging they see the massive orders and continue to ship them out and it would be impossible to prosecute. Who is the damaged party here?
BB
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Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #1097 on: June 17, 2018, 11:31:23 AM »
Quote from: 12HRS on June 17, 2018, 11:24:40 AM
https://www.reddit.com/r/Bestbuy/comments/8r5d7b/these_dot_coms_are_getting_crazy/

All you need is a couple of employees acknowledging they see the massive orders and continue to ship them out and it would be impossible to prosecute. Who is the damaged party here?
Inal, and you are merely presenting a possible defense of a crime.

The damaged party is obviously bb and it's shareholders.
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Offline hide4

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #1098 on: June 17, 2018, 12:36:15 PM »
Quote from: churnbabychurn on June 17, 2018, 11:11:29 AM
They are defrauding bb on their sales potential, market growth strategy etc etc. Their deals are not intended to be abused and manipulated by a Rico organiy out to rip off corporations,by mobilizing an army of con artists to deplete their limited discounted merchandise etc etc. Bla bla
I'm not a prosecutor or lawyer,but you gotta be really naive if you think no laws are being broken or bent
Can't all the above be said about buying and selling miles? And for some reason it's still not illegal.
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Offline avadah

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #1099 on: June 17, 2018, 05:10:33 PM »
How can i  learn the basics about what these buying groups are all about? MYS doesn't give you any info without signing up.
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