Topic Wiki

https://www.dansdeals.com/more/dans-commentary/dark-side-earning-credit-card-points-psa-dont-swipe-others/

https://www.mixcloud.com/zev-brenner/talkline-with-zev-brenner-on-credit-card-scams-affecting-the-orthodox-jewish-community/

http://podcast.headlinesbook.com/e/31616-credit-card-miles-and-points-swiping-for-rewards-buying-and-selling-miles-is-it-assur-and-a-chillul-hashem-or-a-great-way-for-a-side-parnassah/



BEFORE SWIPING FOR SOMEONE READ THIS: (first hand story)

https://forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=36812.msg2062371#msg2062371
https://www.dansdeals.com/more/dans-commentary/dark-side-earning-credit-card-points-psa-dont-swipe-others/#comment-1399884


Dan's warning to DDF:
I hope people realize that any buying group or anyone else that gets merchandise in advance of payment can go south at any time. That's even if you get a check at the time of delivery.
X-posting as I don't want anyone to say that I never put a warning here.

A story that ended up in court - https://iapps.courts.state.ny.us/nyscef/DocumentList?docketId=iRcRHuyZUdOIx69D00a5XQ==&display=all&courtType=Kings%20County%20Supreme%20Court&resultsPageNum=1


I am one of the biggest buyers for buying groups, I have done millions in transactions and have sent to every group there is over the past 3 years. Most buying groups are okay, some scan in slower than others, some pay slower than others - most will lose a few packages over the year. You can research and find which are better for you.

However there is a bigger problem now with Amazon itself.  Amazon in the past has been great with any problems always ready with a refund for lost packages even if it was thousands of dollars. Lately Amazon has clamped down and has tagged these buying groups addresses  in their systems as "freight forwarder" and now no longer will fix any problem you have whatsoever. Doesn't matter what the problem is, even if it shows the package was never delivered, amazon will not help you in any way. Their copy and paste response will always be "this item was sent to a freight forwarder and we're unable to replace or refund the item. We recommend contacting your freight forwarder for more details, as we don't have any more insight or information regarding this matter, For more information about sending items via freight forwarders, please visit our Help Pages: https://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=201117950." As well the amazon drivers either must know this or have been increasingly bad at delivering packages because the numbers of packages missing has gone up astronomically. Previously you would have very few packages missing, now the past 3 months I have had 59 "lost" packages. I now have over $15,000 of loses and some guy in Delaware is probably living the life with all the stuff he stole from me. I will survive, I have made a lot more than $15,000 over the years however just a warning to others here that things are not as they used to be and it really is no longer worth doing buring groups with all the loses piling up

« Last edited by Yo ssi on July 24, 2023, 06:47:26 PM »

Author Topic: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others  (Read 1182290 times)

Offline davidrotts63

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: May 2017
  • Posts: 7218
  • Total likes: 978
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 26
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Programs: Hertz Gold, Hyatt Member, BA Blue, Ebay banned, Amazon Prime
Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #1400 on: October 24, 2018, 10:19:42 AM »
USA's system allows them to only buy profitable items. They broadcast when it falls and anything bought after that point isn't honored, everything before that point is, no matter who you are.
And they are occasionally losing money on a deal (when they dont make you price match).
MYS who doesnt have this price match policy is prone to having people dump items after they devalue since hes still paying the original price. Which leads to a loss on items that they never guaranteed in the first place, as these items were intended for another group at the time that they were thought to be profitable.
(Quit) pulling out the flowers, and watering the weeds. -Peter Lynch

Offline tzifanya54

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Jan 2012
  • Posts: 5629
  • Total likes: 233
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
    • View Profile
Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #1401 on: October 24, 2018, 10:20:46 AM »
USA's system allows them to only buy profitable items. They broadcast when it falls and anything bought after that point isn't honored, everything before that point is, no matter who you are.
It allows them to only request profitable items going forward issue is people already ordered it and are waiting for it to come. On those items they cant be protected.

ETA: I have firsthand knowledge of the kind of profits these groups generate for themselves. That being said they definitely should take the loss in the above scenario its part of the game.

Offline Redbull3

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Dec 2011
  • Posts: 3492
  • Total likes: 417
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
    • View Profile
  • Programs: Blocked By @NeriaKraus
Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #1402 on: October 24, 2018, 10:24:33 AM »
It allows them to only request profitable items going forward issue is people already ordered it and are waiting for it to come. On those items they cant be protected.
So then they can try to predict the market and broadcast the stop earlier. Or maybe broadcast a drop off deadline on products, at time of initial listing. Or don't even buy things that have such a tight turnaround for them to flip before the value goes down. Or don't do these things and manage to a lesser degree but chalk up falling values to cost of doing this kind of business. Anything but make it the buyer's problem!

Offline davidrotts63

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: May 2017
  • Posts: 7218
  • Total likes: 978
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 26
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Programs: Hertz Gold, Hyatt Member, BA Blue, Ebay banned, Amazon Prime
Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #1403 on: October 24, 2018, 10:27:20 AM »
So then they can try to predict the market and broadcast the stop earlier. Or maybe broadcast a drop off deadline on products, at time of initial listing. Or don't even buy things that have such a tight turnaround for them to flip before the value goes down. Or don't do these things and manage to a lesser degree but chalk up falling values to cost of doing this kind of business. Anything but make it the buyer's problem!
No one made it the buyers problem.
It's the guy who's dumping products on them for more then the value.
(Quit) pulling out the flowers, and watering the weeds. -Peter Lynch

Offline tzifanya54

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Jan 2012
  • Posts: 5629
  • Total likes: 233
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
    • View Profile
Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #1404 on: October 24, 2018, 10:29:35 AM »
So then they can try to predict the market and broadcast the stop earlier. Or maybe broadcast a drop off deadline on products, at time of initial listing. Or don't even buy things that have such a tight turnaround for them to flip before the value goes down. Or don't do these things and manage to a lesser degree but chalk up falling values to cost of doing this kind of business. Anything but make it the buyer's problem!
Couldn't agree more. I was just pointing out that they are not guaranteed not to take a loss. I feel like this would be similar to my local grocery saying well I had to throw out 10 lbs of potatoes that got rotten because nobody brought them so now everybody is gotta pay an extra dollar on their bill this week to cover my bottom line. (The right way would be to factor that potential loss into the cost of groceries, buying groups need to do the same).

Offline Redbull3

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Dec 2011
  • Posts: 3492
  • Total likes: 417
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
    • View Profile
  • Programs: Blocked By @NeriaKraus
Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #1405 on: October 24, 2018, 10:41:22 AM »
Couldn't agree more. I was just pointing out that they are not guaranteed not to take a loss. I feel like this would be similar to my local grocery saying well I had to throw out 10 lbs of potatoes that got rotten because nobody brought them so now everybody is gotta pay an extra dollar on their bill this week to cover my bottom line. (The right way would be to factor that potential loss into the cost of groceries, buying groups need to do the same).
Right I got you, it is possible for USA to still incur losses with their method.

Offline lubaby

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Jun 2010
  • Posts: 5335
  • Total likes: 736
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 12
    • View Profile
Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #1406 on: October 24, 2018, 11:07:13 AM »
The problem both sides are having is the lack of transparency and communication. I haven't bought anything for USA or MYS, so not really familiar with their protocols or procedures (maybe some of it is already in place, and if so, maybe needs updating / tweaking to be viable).

Back when ExcellPurchase was running, part of the instructions / terms of their deals were:
Quote
4)  Right after making the order put the order number into the portal

5) Once your order ships, add the tracking number to the portal.
This helped them monitor what the projected sales / commitment volume is, and know who their loyal customers were.

There's no reason why other groups don't make you do this (if can't add right away, at least within 6-12/24 hours (or another reasonable amount) thereby proving commitment (both ways) and loyalty ahead of time.

From the group side, obviously taking into account that some estimated orders might be cancelled (and if they are, buyer should update the order status to cancelled, and include reason (dropdown with reasons like: store cancelled order, decided to keep item for personal use, gave item to another buying group, other).

Offline 12HRS

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Jun 2013
  • Posts: 5108
  • Total likes: 575
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 6
    • View Profile
Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #1407 on: October 24, 2018, 11:10:52 AM »
Ive done millions between the two groups and the time commitment of updating a form for them would make me back out.

Offline Markmann20

  • Dansdeals Bronze Elite
  • *
  • Join Date: Dec 2014
  • Posts: 29
  • Total likes: 39
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
    • THE BUYING GROUP W/ COST & ABOVE COST DEALS
  • Location: New York
Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #1408 on: October 24, 2018, 11:17:46 AM »
I've had nothing but positive experience with MYS - same as with all groups. But I want to keep it that way and be cautious. I can't be buying things without a guarantee they'll be taken. What I don't understand is why they can't use the USA method of guaranteeing each purchase while at the same time, cancel buying after a certain point and requiring proof of purchase if necessary. That system seems perfect and doesn't cause buyers like me to get turned off from ambiguous rules. What is wrong with that system @Markmann20 ?


i'd like to clarify something very simple here. When we sent out the message about the ps4 it was unclear as to who what when and were. Anyone who reached out to us as we wrote and that can prove was bought before was taken off the list was accepted happily. But there have many times when the group that everyone keeps mentioning has literally turned away almost all there buyers cause they just didn't want to take the hit cause the market dropped like crazy which caused a increase in pick up and drop off off by us after there message was sent. There were those Buyers were just brining that item and not other items from the list. And if someone comes with just the item that went bad you can very simply see anyone with a head on ddf can agree that either (A) he's looking to dump or (B) he mamish only bought that item and is small time buyer who just does for the spends. Its very simple. and easy to tell.

We will be more clearer on when deals are off the list so you know when the 10 day terms start. One of the reasons for these new terms is cause people were just waiting till last minute or brining very late. as long as item is dropped off in the 10 days a buyer really has nothing to worry about

Ill leave off with this Boruch Hashem there are people who are not happy with MYS success and are still trying to bash the name on here and with out bad PR many successful companies would not be around today "Bad PR is good PR" . I wish those people much success in life. If there are any other concerns about the new policy please feel free to let us know, as well id be happy to clear up any mis understandings
« Last Edit: October 24, 2018, 11:22:45 AM by Markmann20 »
WWW.BuyingGroup.COM

Offline Markmann20

  • Dansdeals Bronze Elite
  • *
  • Join Date: Dec 2014
  • Posts: 29
  • Total likes: 39
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
    • THE BUYING GROUP W/ COST & ABOVE COST DEALS
  • Location: New York
Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #1409 on: October 24, 2018, 11:20:08 AM »
The problem both sides are having is the lack of transparency and communication. I haven't bought anything for USA or MYS, so not really familiar with their protocols or procedures (maybe some of it is already in place, and if so, maybe needs updating / tweaking to be viable).

Back when ExcellPurchase was running, part of the instructions / terms of their deals were:This helped them monitor what the projected sales / commitment volume is, and know who their loyal customers were.

There's no reason why other groups don't make you do this (if can't add right away, at least within 6-12/24 hours (or another reasonable amount) thereby proving commitment (both ways) and loyalty ahead of time.

From the group side, obviously taking into account that some estimated orders might be cancelled (and if they are, buyer should update the order status to cancelled, and include reason (dropdown with reasons like: store cancelled order, decided to keep item for personal use, gave item to another buying group, other).


We would love to do this and I know other groups would to. But we believe it would discourage buyers to buy as buyers are looking for the simplest easiest less hassle group around. hence why there is no more uploading tracking for delaware
WWW.BuyingGroup.COM

Offline lubaby

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Jun 2010
  • Posts: 5335
  • Total likes: 736
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 12
    • View Profile
Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #1410 on: October 24, 2018, 11:29:40 AM »
We would love to do this and I know other groups would to. But we believe it would discourage buyers to buy as buyers are looking for the simplest easiest less hassle group around. hence why there is no more uploading tracking for delaware
What about some type of "forward order confirmation to email address" system (that other company types use)? It will certainly take programming / development work on your side to get set up, but can be considered minimal hassle for buyer (much simpler then filling out form), and you still get the info you need.

Offline Markmann20

  • Dansdeals Bronze Elite
  • *
  • Join Date: Dec 2014
  • Posts: 29
  • Total likes: 39
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
    • THE BUYING GROUP W/ COST & ABOVE COST DEALS
  • Location: New York
Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #1411 on: October 24, 2018, 11:31:29 AM »
What about some type of "forward order confirmation to email address" system (that other company types use)? It will certainly take programming / development work on your side to get set up, but can be considered minimal hassle for buyer (much simpler then filling out form), and you still get the info you need.

I did that a while back not everyone comply, good idea but still something buyers won't do
WWW.BuyingGroup.COM

Offline lubaby

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Jun 2010
  • Posts: 5335
  • Total likes: 736
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 12
    • View Profile
Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #1412 on: October 24, 2018, 11:39:01 AM »
I did that a while back not everyone comply, good idea but still something buyers won't do
So now everything is just "up in the air" in a argumentative (/ broken) system? I get it's not the majority of your clientele that have problems, and if those majority "elite" members don't follow protocols you can look the other way. But until there is a mutual trust factor built up (for all companies, not just yours), for new / not so active members, they need to be willing to work with you.

If buyers want you to provide commitment / loyalty to them, they need to be willing (/ forced?) to do something) to provide that in return.

Offline grodnoking

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Nov 2014
  • Posts: 5847
  • Total likes: 767
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 17
    • View Profile
Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #1413 on: October 24, 2018, 11:53:48 AM »
Simple idea that everyone does already is ask for everyone to stop ordering and send an email to confirm a certain item. If you get this item from an occasional buyer, check if he sent email, if not ask him why not and to send his receipt that he bought it before you said stop. If he bought it after then you can politely decline the item based on the fact that he didn't listen.
I'm not who you think I am.

Offline tzifanya54

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Jan 2012
  • Posts: 5629
  • Total likes: 233
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
    • View Profile
Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #1414 on: October 24, 2018, 12:08:43 PM »
I love how Mark Mann comes on here and says that everyone bashing his vague terms are just jealous of his success. As I stated earlier I personally would not buy for you since you hijacked USA’s list. That’s a person I can’t trust. Forget about me though, you have people that are already buying for you, telling you to cut out these vague terms. You have people that are already buying for you telling you to cut out this business where your potential loses are the buyers problem. I have no clue how many buyers you currently have, but I am assuming you are looking to grow. My free advice is why not take this all to heart and change your approach, and your relationship with your smaller buyers.

As an aside to say we all jealous of you, makes you sound childish. I personally (and yes I am very familiar with the inner workings of a buying group) would not touch it with a 10ft pole.

Offline LoLo

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Aug 2014
  • Posts: 3772
  • Total likes: 197
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #1415 on: October 24, 2018, 12:12:01 PM »
I assumed he was referring to coinguy's post.

Offline tzifanya54

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Jan 2012
  • Posts: 5629
  • Total likes: 233
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
    • View Profile
Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #1416 on: October 24, 2018, 12:16:50 PM »
I assumed he was referring to coinguy's post.
Maybe, but he still came across as quite arrogant to me. This is a problem with other buying groups as well, they are pretty cocky and assume they will have buyers no matter what.... USA dropped commissions significantly because they believe that buyers will preform regardless. I think time will show that the buyers will get fed up when there isn’t enough in it anymore for them. This applies to all groups, but the attitude that his success is his buyers problem makes it that much worse.

Offline Markmann20

  • Dansdeals Bronze Elite
  • *
  • Join Date: Dec 2014
  • Posts: 29
  • Total likes: 39
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
    • THE BUYING GROUP W/ COST & ABOVE COST DEALS
  • Location: New York
Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #1417 on: October 24, 2018, 12:22:39 PM »
I love how Mark Mann comes on here and says that everyone bashing his vague terms are just jealous of his success. As I stated earlier I personally would not buy for you since you hijacked USA’s list. That’s a person I can’t trust. Forget about me though, you have people that are already buying for you, telling you to cut out these vague terms. You have people that are already buying for you telling you to cut out this business where your potential loses are the buyers problem. I have no clue how many buyers you currently have, but I am assuming you are looking to grow. My free advice is why not take this all to heart and change your approach, and your relationship with your smaller buyers.

As an aside to say we all jealous of you, makes you sound childish. I personally (and yes I am very familiar with the inner workings of a buying group) would not touch it with a 10ft pole.


Im not sure who you are or who told you what but I never hijacked USA list we had two separate groups then we merged list then when we split ways gave the buyers the option thats all
WWW.BuyingGroup.COM

Offline Markmann20

  • Dansdeals Bronze Elite
  • *
  • Join Date: Dec 2014
  • Posts: 29
  • Total likes: 39
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
    • THE BUYING GROUP W/ COST & ABOVE COST DEALS
  • Location: New York
Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #1418 on: October 24, 2018, 12:32:34 PM »
Maybe, but he still came across as quite arrogant to me. This is a problem with other buying groups as well, they are pretty cocky and assume they will have buyers no matter what.... USA dropped commissions significantly because they believe that buyers will preform regardless. I think time will show that the buyers will get fed up when there isn’t enough in it anymore for them. This applies to all groups, but the attitude that his success is his buyers problem makes it that much worse.

You may not know me but I'm far from arrogant or cocky thats not who I am I'm prob one of the most honest truthful people out there and if I came off as that I apologize cause not my intensions.
The game has definitely changed in the 6 years I'm doing this for both the owners of groups and buyers not as much money as people thing there is I miss the good old days the game will likely be over sooner then later as not many places to buy from like there used to be.
WWW.BuyingGroup.COM

Offline sams

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Nov 2014
  • Posts: 1140
  • Total likes: 38
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 2
    • View Profile
Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #1419 on: October 24, 2018, 12:40:40 PM »
I'm curious what USA said to people who PMed them on October 17 right after they posted "we are no longer accepting PS4"
Does anyone have first hand info?
P.S. I can gaurantee AI or QB would not force a guy to return something, if it's a guy that comes even once every couple months.
They let ppl drop off even after they said