Topic Wiki

https://www.dansdeals.com/more/dans-commentary/dark-side-earning-credit-card-points-psa-dont-swipe-others/

https://www.mixcloud.com/zev-brenner/talkline-with-zev-brenner-on-credit-card-scams-affecting-the-orthodox-jewish-community/

http://podcast.headlinesbook.com/e/31616-credit-card-miles-and-points-swiping-for-rewards-buying-and-selling-miles-is-it-assur-and-a-chillul-hashem-or-a-great-way-for-a-side-parnassah/



BEFORE SWIPING FOR SOMEONE READ THIS: (first hand story)

https://forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=36812.msg2062371#msg2062371
https://www.dansdeals.com/more/dans-commentary/dark-side-earning-credit-card-points-psa-dont-swipe-others/#comment-1399884


Dan's warning to DDF:
I hope people realize that any buying group or anyone else that gets merchandise in advance of payment can go south at any time. That's even if you get a check at the time of delivery.
X-posting as I don't want anyone to say that I never put a warning here.

A story that ended up in court - https://iapps.courts.state.ny.us/nyscef/DocumentList?docketId=iRcRHuyZUdOIx69D00a5XQ==&display=all&courtType=Kings%20County%20Supreme%20Court&resultsPageNum=1


I am one of the biggest buyers for buying groups, I have done millions in transactions and have sent to every group there is over the past 3 years. Most buying groups are okay, some scan in slower than others, some pay slower than others - most will lose a few packages over the year. You can research and find which are better for you.

However there is a bigger problem now with Amazon itself.  Amazon in the past has been great with any problems always ready with a refund for lost packages even if it was thousands of dollars. Lately Amazon has clamped down and has tagged these buying groups addresses  in their systems as "freight forwarder" and now no longer will fix any problem you have whatsoever. Doesn't matter what the problem is, even if it shows the package was never delivered, amazon will not help you in any way. Their copy and paste response will always be "this item was sent to a freight forwarder and we're unable to replace or refund the item. We recommend contacting your freight forwarder for more details, as we don't have any more insight or information regarding this matter, For more information about sending items via freight forwarders, please visit our Help Pages: https://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=201117950." As well the amazon drivers either must know this or have been increasingly bad at delivering packages because the numbers of packages missing has gone up astronomically. Previously you would have very few packages missing, now the past 3 months I have had 59 "lost" packages. I now have over $15,000 of loses and some guy in Delaware is probably living the life with all the stuff he stole from me. I will survive, I have made a lot more than $15,000 over the years however just a warning to others here that things are not as they used to be and it really is no longer worth doing buring groups with all the loses piling up

« Last edited by Yo ssi on July 24, 2023, 06:47:26 PM »

Author Topic: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others  (Read 1182981 times)

Offline Menachem613

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #1780 on: January 31, 2019, 08:38:34 PM »
I wouldnt say a $1000 loss is life altering for most buyers.

$250k on the other hand.....

$1k is a drop in the bucket for me too but don't fool yourself, there are many people living paycheck to paycheck and yes, $1k may be the difference between feeding a family or not.

Offline zale

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #1781 on: January 31, 2019, 08:43:22 PM »
http://www.ch10.co.il/news/437550/#.XFOiL1VKiUk

@chbochur was that guy playing the market with it?

I know this story but was not aware that this story had anything to do with credit card swiping. This was a straight-up scheme, and most of the investors were wealthy people.

Offline ib3

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #1782 on: January 31, 2019, 08:51:22 PM »
$1k is a drop in the bucket for me too but don't fool yourself, there are many people living paycheck to paycheck and yes, $1k may be the difference between feeding a family or not.
+1. The proof? That people are ready to do something as crazy as letting someone swipe your card to rack up the points. Desperation leads to bad decisions.

Offline 12HRS

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #1783 on: January 31, 2019, 08:53:01 PM »
FTR buying groups is not the same thing. Not saying there is no risk or its not high risk even but its not comparable at all.

Offline zale

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #1784 on: January 31, 2019, 08:54:50 PM »
you need to keep in mind:
never invest/lend what you cannot walk away from and afford to loose. come up with that number and don't deviate.

This statement is a little too generalized. It really depends on the type of investment.

An investment into an asset such as real estate is generally considered safer. I would argue that it’s safe to borrow money for such an investment, but only if it’s your personal investment, not giving it to someone who claims to be buying a property.

Any investment not backed by hard assets is risky. You should never invest more money than you can afford to lose into stocks or start-up businesses.

Buying groups land somewhere in the middle. Based on posts in this thread, I will definitely agree with you that it’s best to err on the side of caution and only buy what you can afford to lose, or at least what you can afford to pay off within 1 year if something catastrophic were to happen.

Online gozalim

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #1785 on: January 31, 2019, 08:56:55 PM »
I know this story but was not aware that this story had anything to do with credit card swiping. This was a straight-up scheme, and most of the investors were wealthy people.
I don't think it involved cc.
I do think it's what he was taking about

Offline yesitsme

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #1786 on: January 31, 2019, 09:03:05 PM »
whats with the latest bad investment/investor?
["-"]

Offline gingyguy

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #1787 on: January 31, 2019, 10:16:36 PM »
FTR buying groups is not the same thing. Not saying there is no risk or its not high risk even but its not comparable at all.
the only similarity is that people go in to buying groups thinking that nothing can go wrong the same way they swipe their cards for other people thinking nothing can go wrong. but the risk is definitely significantly lower by buying groups
May you slide down the banister of happiness & get many splinters of success up your career.

Offline whYME

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #1788 on: January 31, 2019, 10:24:43 PM »
I don't think it involved cc.
I do think it's what he was taking about
+1

Offline 12HRS

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #1789 on: January 31, 2019, 11:02:37 PM »
the only similarity is that people go in to buying groups thinking that nothing can go wrong the same way they swipe their cards for other people thinking nothing can go wrong. but the risk is definitely significantly lower by buying groups

agreed with the bold.

risk with buying groups is they don't pay or decide not to take your product or product goes missing with a signature. but I would argue that risk is involved in many different business where you sell a product and send an invoice, client can mess you over in lots of industries. I was actually thinking of buying specialized insurance just for this reason.

Offline Yehuda57

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #1790 on: January 31, 2019, 11:31:05 PM »
agreed with the bold.

risk with buying groups is they don't pay or decide not to take your product or product goes missing with a signature. but I would argue that risk is involved in many different business where you sell a product and send an invoice, client can mess you over in lots of industries. I was actually thinking of buying specialized insurance just for this reason.

The difference is that buying group buyers are not looking at this as a business move or doing any sort of risk assessment. Many are unaware that there is any risk  at all. Some are singles in Yeshivah without income doing it for points, others are people living paycheck to paycheck also looking for a few extra points/dollars wherever they can get them. An article by Dan alerting them to the risks, even if the risks are lower than just swiping for someone, would be very beneficial, IMNSHO.

Offline YesThatsMe

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #1791 on: January 31, 2019, 11:35:24 PM »
This statement is a little too generalized. It really depends on the type of investment.

An investment into an asset such as real estate is generally considered safer. I would argue that it’s safe to borrow money for such an investment, but only if it’s your personal investment, not giving it to someone who claims to be buying a property.

Any investment not backed by hard assets is risky. You should never invest more money than you can afford to lose into stocks or start-up businesses.

Buying groups land somewhere in the middle. Based on posts in this thread, I will definitely agree with you that it’s best to err on the side of caution and only buy what you can afford to lose, or at least what you can afford to pay off within 1 year if something catastrophic were to happen.

+1, although I would also argue that Bonds (debt) are also asset backed (Investment Grade).

Stocks from the S&P 500 are the next tier, safe, but don’t take the margin if you can’t afford the loss.

Offline chbochur

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #1792 on: February 01, 2019, 01:18:23 AM »
http://www.ch10.co.il/news/437550/#.XFOiL1VKiUk

@chbochur was that guy playing the market with it?
To be honest I don't know if anyone is totally sure as to what he did with it.
(This coming from people who lost over a million dollars in that story)

Offline ludmila

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #1793 on: February 01, 2019, 01:44:36 AM »
To be honest I don't know if anyone is totally sure as to what he did with it.
(This coming from people who lost over a million dollars in that story)
The CH10 article in Hebrew claims over $13 million.
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Online gozalim

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #1794 on: February 01, 2019, 01:59:39 AM »
The CH10 article in Hebrew claims over $13 million.
you're talking total he's talking per single investor

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #1795 on: February 01, 2019, 06:46:41 AM »
To be honest I don't know if anyone is totally sure as to what he did with it.
(This coming from people who lost over a million dollars in that story)
Article says he's a degenerate gambler

Offline chbochur

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #1796 on: February 01, 2019, 08:32:49 AM »
The CH10 article in Hebrew claims over $13 million.
In talking per one investor

Offline chbochur

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #1797 on: February 01, 2019, 08:33:14 AM »
Article says he's a degenerate gambler
Question is what did he gamble it on

Offline gingyguy

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #1798 on: February 01, 2019, 08:40:45 AM »
Question is what did he gamble it on
why does it matter? gambling is gambling is gambling
May you slide down the banister of happiness & get many splinters of success up your career.

Offline chbochur

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #1799 on: February 01, 2019, 08:45:48 AM »
why does it matter? gambling is gambling is gambling
There's gambling in a casino gambling in the stock market and gambling in a bad investment...
Some are crimes while others aren't