Author Topic: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others  (Read 390691 times)

Offline aygart

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #1845 on: February 03, 2019, 11:23:36 AM »
Without getting into details the people the firm they are using are very professional and are working with both sides together.
Which are they? Professionals working for their client, or charlatans working for both sides while being retained by only one?
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline aygart

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #1846 on: February 03, 2019, 11:26:05 AM »
From what I heard (admittedly third hand), the merchant and his lawyers claim to have a large amount of inventory which they will use to pay back (all/most?) capital once they move it.

That does not mean that the victims should just take their word for it, they should have their own attorney verify the claim.
"we really have a great business model! We just need more time! We are almost at the end!"

Let me guess what their plan is. They want to have some more people swipe credit cards for them to keep them afloat for now.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline rileywiles23

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #1847 on: February 03, 2019, 11:26:40 AM »
Just rediculus. How is it not in the best interest of cardholders to share how " it's all going to work out"?

Transparency can help the victims feel secure that the perps won't run away with and final proceeds before making the marks whole.

They need a transparent bankruptcy process.
Bankruptcy can work w/o them losing whatever money they have in their bank account, houses, cars etc. ?
Life is as good as you make it...

Offline aaa

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #1848 on: February 03, 2019, 11:30:17 AM »
None of these people will end up with a dollar in bankruptcy. That is why they are all trying to avoid it.

Offline aygart

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #1849 on: February 03, 2019, 11:58:12 AM »
None of these people will end up with a dollar. period.
ftfy

As opposed to if they take the advice of the opposing lawyer......
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline Tpg

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #1850 on: February 03, 2019, 12:06:50 PM »
Might be a stupid question,

Why canít they just call in dispute/unauthorized charges etc..

If anyone has more information how to deal with this please PM me or know of a good lawyer that can help out

I have a few friends involved in this situation

Thanks

Offline zh cohen

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #1851 on: February 03, 2019, 12:36:12 PM »
Might be a stupid question,

Why canít they just call in dispute/unauthorized charges etc..


Because the charges weren't unauthorized

Offline Tpg

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #1852 on: February 03, 2019, 01:59:46 PM »
Because the charges weren't unauthorized

They can say we have donít have a Authorized  binding agreement to charge my card every month

Offline zale

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #1853 on: February 03, 2019, 03:15:22 PM »
They can say we have donít have a Authorized  binding agreement to charge my card every month

Then they can tell you that it's fraud and to file a police report. Good luck with that.

Offline chevron

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #1854 on: February 03, 2019, 03:26:02 PM »
They can say we have donít have a Authorized  binding agreement to charge my card every month

It's going to result in fraud charges on behalf of the merchant.

I don't think that's what they want to do?

If there is product it needs to be liquidated ASAP along with any internal value such as business name which could include lucarative eBay and Amazon accounts.

This doesn't need to end badly for all involved, I'm sure there are industry players that can and may buy them out.


Offline chevron

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #1855 on: February 03, 2019, 03:34:39 PM »
It's going to be painful for the owner(s) but there are no easy ways out.

I was in this hole and it's traumatic, it took me many years to get my confidence back and has resulted in an ingrained fear of owing money and a caution in business.

But the product needs to be moved fast, any attempt to recover max value will simply drag the process on and amount to high interest payments.

Going back to the other discussion, the people involved will need to count past checks as payments..

To the owner, if you are honest and do the right thing, you will iyh get a job that will pay you well, you have talent apparently, just not everyone is meant to run their own business.

Offline zale

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #1856 on: February 03, 2019, 03:41:00 PM »

I am not a lawyer, but I worked for several years in a company that did equity investment loans. As is part of the business, some of the companies we invested into defaulted on the loans. We spent a lot of time taking these companies and individuals to court. We won some, we lost some, and in the process learnt a lot about how the legal system works.

I suspect that some of the victims of this Kingston Ave merchant might be reading this forum, so I will just say a few things:

1. When it comes to unsecured loans, courts of law operate on a first-come-first-serve basis. It also very much follows the Talmudic logic of כל דאלים גבר. In short, if any of the victims decide to lawyer up and go to court, they will be first in line to collect and seize assets (assuming there are any to seize). Other parties can try to rush to court to intervene and that may or may not be effective.

2. Victims with more money to spare are at a clear advantage. They can hire good lawyers and file a case. If any of these victims sustained more than $75,000 in losses then they can file a case in Federal court and even go as far as to ask for a preliminary injunction and have the merchantís warehouse and other assets seized. Once this happens, everyone else in line can be screwed.

3. If you are a victim, you must immediately get an exact accounting of the merchantís assets. You must find out if he has secured loans, because if he does then they are first in line no matter what.

4. As others have mentioned, if he declares bankruptcy, your money will unfortunately not be recovered. Under bankruptcy there is a specific order of who gets paid first, second third etc. first goes the court receiver, then taxes, then wages, then secured lenders, and then if there is anything left, unsecured lenders. There is usually nothing left for unsecured lenders. This is on top of the fact that this process can take several years and the credit card interest might not be sustainable for some victims.

5. Not every lawyer is a good lawyer. Thousands of lawyers graduate every year and many of them are dumb as a doorknob. Try to find a lawyer with experience in this specific field and ask around for references.

6. Donít assume that all victims are trying to help each other out. At the end of the day everyone is going to look out for their own skin. This sounds morbid, but some of the bigger, friendlier victims can hammer out a private deal with the merchant that will leave the smaller guys in the dirt.

Again, if you are a victim you must independently find out exactly what the merchant has. He could have squandered this money on something and his assets could be a quarter of what he took.

If everyone recovers their money from this it will be a miracle.

Do not rely on anything I wrote here. Consult with a competent lawyer.





Offline LoLo

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #1857 on: February 03, 2019, 05:18:49 PM »
Great post.

Offline ExGingi

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #1858 on: February 03, 2019, 05:37:01 PM »
I suspect that some of the victims of this Kingston Ave merchant might be reading this forum, so I will just say a few things:

Your post is worthy of a much more public forum. It could save people. Your post, along with R' Mendel Shafran's guidelines for investing, should be posted at least monthly on Jewish Community websites, so we don't hear of so many such cases.

Coming from פרשת משפטים, a better awareness of רבית issues, and the need to get a Heter Iska edited by a competent Halachic authority (who will presumably insist that the parties signing understand it, as quite a few poskim require that) would also go a long way in avoiding such issues, as well as better scrupulousness in observance of Torah and Mitzvos.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
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Offline Menachem613

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #1859 on: February 03, 2019, 05:48:29 PM »
Your post is worthy of a much more public forum. It could save people. Your post, along with R' Mendel Shafran's guidelines for investing, should be posted at least monthly on Jewish Community websites, so we don't hear of so many such cases.

Coming from פרשת משפטים, a better awareness of רבית issues, and the need to get a Heter Iska edited by a competent Halachic authority (who will presumably insist that the parties signing understand it, as quite a few poskim require that) would also go a long way in avoiding such issues, as well as better scrupulousness in observance of Torah and Mitzvos.


Stronger emunah is the key. If you believe that Hashem decided your income for the year thereís no need for a lot of this heartache.