Author Topic: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others  (Read 389675 times)

Offline zale

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #1860 on: February 03, 2019, 05:56:15 PM »
Your post is worthy of a much more public forum. It could save people. Your post, along with R' Mendel Shafran's guidelines for investing, should be posted at least monthly on Jewish Community websites, so we don't hear of so many such cases.

Coming from פרשת משפטים, a better awareness of רבית issues, and the need to get a Heter Iska edited by a competent Halachic authority (who will presumably insist that the parties signing understand it, as quite a few poskim require that) would also go a long way in avoiding such issues, as well as better scrupulousness in observance of Torah and Mitzvos.

The individual who scammed people out of $13 million last year had a Heter Iska built into many of his contracts and signed by Rabbonim. In fact, you can find these contracts by searching the NYS court database.

It’s good to know the laws of Ribbis, but it will not save you from getting scammed.

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #1861 on: February 03, 2019, 06:03:03 PM »

The individual who scammed people out of $13 million last year had a Heter Iska built into many of his contracts and signed by Rabbonim. In fact, you can find these contracts by searching the NYS court database.

It’s good to know the laws of Ribbis, but it will not save you from getting scammed.

And the people that lost money with him were mostly “Accredited Investors” who should understand risks (though in that case FWIU it might have been outright fraud, with money never invested in deals that were presented), and can more easily recover from the loss (which I am not downplaying one bit).

That being said, I personally know someone who lost 50k with him. This was money earmarked for a down payment on a house. It’s sad that the planned home purchase needed to be pushed off.
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Offline zh cohen

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #1862 on: February 03, 2019, 06:25:41 PM »
R' Mendel Shafran's guidelines for investing

Link?

Offline ludmila

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #1863 on: February 03, 2019, 06:28:41 PM »
Bankruptcy can work w/o them losing whatever money they have in their bank account, houses, cars etc. ?
In bankruptcy, are you allowed to keep your home if it is fully paid off? Most states do not, I am correct?
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Offline ludmila

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #1864 on: February 03, 2019, 06:45:24 PM »
The individual who scammed people out of $13 million last year had a Heter Iska built into many of his contracts and signed by Rabbonim. In fact, you can find these contracts by searching the NYS court database.

It’s good to know the laws of Ribbis, but it will not save you from getting scammed.
Was he convicted?
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Offline zale

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #1865 on: February 03, 2019, 06:45:24 PM »
In bankruptcy, are you allowed to keep your home if it is fully paid off? Most states do not, I am correct?

This is a question for a bankruptcy lawyer, but from what I understand it varies from case to case.

First, did this person as an individual ever guaranty the payments, or was it guaranteed under the business? If it was under the business than he can simply file for bankruptcy of his business and his personal assets are untouchable.

To go after his personal assets you would need to either prove that he personally guaranteed it, or you would need to sue him for fraud — which is always an uphill battle. You would need to prove to the court that when he took the money he intended to commit fraud. Extremely difficult to prove.

Assuming you cross that bridge and the court rules in your favor that he is personally liable, in order to seize his home it would have to be in his name only. If his wife is a joint owner you will not be able to seize it. Even if it is in his name only, you would need to get a court order in his state. Then you would have to file the order with the sheriff’s office and pay some significant fees. The sheriff might request a bond as collateral until the home is sold. The process of selling can then take years.

Offline chevron

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #1866 on: February 03, 2019, 07:18:39 PM »
And the people that lost money with him were mostly “Accredited Investors” who should understand risks (though in that case FWIU it might have been outright fraud, with money never invested in deals that were presented), and can more easily recover from the loss (which I am not downplaying one bit).

That being said, I personally know someone who lost 50k with him. This was money earmarked for a down payment on a house. It’s sad that the planned home purchase needed to be pushed off.

A simple Google search would have told them the full picture. Whatever happened to due diligence?

Offline Menachem613

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #1867 on: February 03, 2019, 07:23:16 PM »
A simple Google search would have told them the full picture. Whatever happened to due diligence?

That’s for well paid lawyers. 

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #1868 on: February 03, 2019, 11:19:28 PM »
From what I heard (admittedly third hand), the merchant and his lawyers claim to have a large amount of inventory which they will use to pay back (all/most?) capital once they move it.

That does not mean that the victims should just take their word for it, they should have their own attorney verify the claim.
For my personal fist hand knowledge: The “inventory” they have is garbage that was overpaid for to begin with.

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #1869 on: February 03, 2019, 11:27:17 PM »
This is a question for a bankruptcy lawyer, but from what I understand it varies from case to case.

First, did this person as an individual ever guaranty the payments, or was it guaranteed under the business? If it was under the business than he can simply file for bankruptcy of his business and his personal assets are untouchable.

To go after his personal assets you would need to either prove that he personally guaranteed it, or you would need to sue him for fraud — which is always an uphill battle. You would need to prove to the court that when he took the money he intended to commit fraud. Extremely difficult to prove.

Assuming you cross that bridge and the court rules in your favor that he is personally liable, in order to seize his home it would have to be in his name only. If his wife is a joint owner you will not be able to seize it. Even if it is in his name only, you would need to get a court order in his state. Then you would have to file the order with the sheriff’s office and pay some significant fees. The sheriff might request a bond as collateral until the home is sold. The process of selling can then take years.

He personally guaranteed everything to his initial investors when he began 3-4 years ago, I have seen all the contracts.

The guy doesn’t know the difference between a loan and an investment, and thinks professionals are those who have signatures in their emails.

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #1870 on: February 03, 2019, 11:33:05 PM »
Some of you just don’t get it, these are people with 0 education, spent their lives as employees (one in the store on Kingston he eventually bought, the other in a Lakewood bakery followed by some Trenton property management company that went bust).

Guys with Lakewood levels credit card debt, whose financial acumen is derived from Ami biztank, who happened to chance upon a great product they were able to buy through their store for Amazon.

They turned their whole business online, used messed up accounting methods, JV’ed with some failing houseware stores, some scammy furniture business, secondhand trucks, and a payroll to rival Goldman Sachs.

Nebach.

Offline ludmila

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #1871 on: February 03, 2019, 11:34:46 PM »
Some of you just don’t get it, these are people with 0 education, spent their lives as employees (one in the store on Kingston he eventually bought, the other in a Lakewood bakery followed by some Trenton property management company that went bust).

Guys with Lakewood levels credit card debt, whose financial acumen is derived from Ami biztank, who happened to chance upon a great product they were able to buy through their store for Amazon.

They turned their whole business online, used messed up accounting methods, JV’ed with some failing houseware stores, some scammy furniture business, secondhand trucks, and a payroll to rival Goldman Sachs.

Nebach.
Wow, scary--
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Offline zale

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #1872 on: February 03, 2019, 11:49:23 PM »
For my personal fist hand knowledge: The “inventory” they have is garbage that was overpaid for to begin with.

If this is true then the money is lost. This should serve as a stark warning to people.

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #1873 on: February 04, 2019, 03:46:00 AM »
If this is true then the money is lost. This should serve as a stark warning to people.
+13M

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Offline cmey

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #1874 on: February 04, 2019, 08:53:57 AM »
Some of you just don’t get it, these are people with 0 education, spent their lives as employees (one in the store on Kingston he eventually bought, the other in a Lakewood bakery followed by some Trenton property management company that went bust).

Guys with Lakewood levels credit card debt, whose financial acumen is derived from Ami biztank, who happened to chance upon a great product they were able to buy through their store for Amazon.

They turned their whole business online, used messed up accounting methods, JV’ed with some failing houseware stores, some scammy furniture business, secondhand trucks, and a payroll to rival Goldman Sachs.

Nebach.

What are Lakewood levels credit card debt?