Topic Wiki

https://www.dansdeals.com/more/dans-commentary/dark-side-earning-credit-card-points-psa-dont-swipe-others/

https://www.mixcloud.com/zev-brenner/talkline-with-zev-brenner-on-credit-card-scams-affecting-the-orthodox-jewish-community/

http://podcast.headlinesbook.com/e/31616-credit-card-miles-and-points-swiping-for-rewards-buying-and-selling-miles-is-it-assur-and-a-chillul-hashem-or-a-great-way-for-a-side-parnassah/



BEFORE SWIPING FOR SOMEONE READ THIS: (first hand story)

https://forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=36812.msg2062371#msg2062371
https://www.dansdeals.com/more/dans-commentary/dark-side-earning-credit-card-points-psa-dont-swipe-others/#comment-1399884


Dan's warning to DDF:
I hope people realize that any buying group or anyone else that gets merchandise in advance of payment can go south at any time. That's even if you get a check at the time of delivery.
X-posting as I don't want anyone to say that I never put a warning here.

A story that ended up in court - https://iapps.courts.state.ny.us/nyscef/DocumentList?docketId=iRcRHuyZUdOIx69D00a5XQ==&display=all&courtType=Kings%20County%20Supreme%20Court&resultsPageNum=1


I am one of the biggest buyers for buying groups, I have done millions in transactions and have sent to every group there is over the past 3 years. Most buying groups are okay, some scan in slower than others, some pay slower than others - most will lose a few packages over the year. You can research and find which are better for you.

However there is a bigger problem now with Amazon itself.  Amazon in the past has been great with any problems always ready with a refund for lost packages even if it was thousands of dollars. Lately Amazon has clamped down and has tagged these buying groups addresses  in their systems as "freight forwarder" and now no longer will fix any problem you have whatsoever. Doesn't matter what the problem is, even if it shows the package was never delivered, amazon will not help you in any way. Their copy and paste response will always be "this item was sent to a freight forwarder and we're unable to replace or refund the item. We recommend contacting your freight forwarder for more details, as we don't have any more insight or information regarding this matter, For more information about sending items via freight forwarders, please visit our Help Pages: https://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=201117950." As well the amazon drivers either must know this or have been increasingly bad at delivering packages because the numbers of packages missing has gone up astronomically. Previously you would have very few packages missing, now the past 3 months I have had 59 "lost" packages. I now have over $15,000 of loses and some guy in Delaware is probably living the life with all the stuff he stole from me. I will survive, I have made a lot more than $15,000 over the years however just a warning to others here that things are not as they used to be and it really is no longer worth doing buring groups with all the loses piling up

« Last edited by Yo ssi on July 24, 2023, 06:47:26 PM »

Author Topic: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others  (Read 1183302 times)

Offline LoLo

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #1980 on: February 10, 2019, 10:42:00 PM »
Very true.

Offline Mo2

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #1981 on: February 10, 2019, 10:44:05 PM »
Is it bad investment for 2% a month
That’s like 24% annually
1. points are not cash
2. if everyone did the same due diligence they would/should do before lending or investing money and then lend or invest responsibly, we wouldn't be having these discussions here.

My main point is that people simply don't realize the risks involved.
I'm a big fan of getting extra points. But I am against ppl not realizing the risks they're taking and even more against those who downplay the risks or even "guarantee" that it's risk free
Common sense is not a gift, it is a punishment.
Because you have to deal with everyone who doesn't have it.

Offline Dan

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #1982 on: February 10, 2019, 10:47:31 PM »
The only time it was risk free was when PFS put up collateral to match the cost of the original coin deals that they did with us.

I hope people realize that any buying group or anyone else that gets merchandise in advance of payment can go south at any time. That's even if you get a check at the time of delivery.

Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Offline Mo2

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #1983 on: February 10, 2019, 10:50:09 PM »
The only time it was risk free was when PFS put up collateral to match the cost of the original coin deals that they did with us.

I hope people realize that any buying group or anyone else that gets merchandise in advance of payment can go south at any time. That's even if you get a check at the time of delivery.
sadly your hopes aren't realized by too many
Common sense is not a gift, it is a punishment.
Because you have to deal with everyone who doesn't have it.

Offline aygart

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #1984 on: February 10, 2019, 11:07:43 PM »
A ddms post bashing them as ponzi perpetrators would be pure motzei Shem ra.
Almost every recent Ponzi scheme started as a legitimate business and then ended up taking capital not to fund the business but to pay back others. As soon as that happens it leaves the original business which the capital is no longer funding and becomes a Ponzi.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline YesThatsMe

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #1985 on: February 10, 2019, 11:11:31 PM »
Almost every recent Ponzi scheme started as a legitimate business and then ended up taking capital not to fund the business but to pay back others. As soon as that happens it leaves the original business which the capital is no longer funding and becomes a Ponzi.

Understand, and you’re (always) right.

But this story was not a Ponzi.

Offline aygart

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #1986 on: February 10, 2019, 11:16:51 PM »
Understand, and you’re (always) right.

But this story was not a Ponzi.
Were the later loans to capitalize a business or to repay others? If they were to repay others then what connection do they have to the business other than that it happens to be the same people. I fully understand that they did not intend to have anyone lose out etc. and they may have had good intentions blah blah. From the way you are describing it when you were there it does not seem to have been a Ponzi. Once they started taking from people who were gullible and couldn't afford it just to pay back others that is where they were nonchalant about other peoples money and lives.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline S209

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #1987 on: February 11, 2019, 01:08:02 AM »
Were the later loans to capitalize a business or to repay others? If they were to repay others then what connection do they have to the business other than that it happens to be the same people. I fully understand that they did not intend to have anyone lose out etc. and they may have had good intentions blah blah. From the way you are describing it when you were there it does not seem to have been a Ponzi. Once they started taking from people who were gullible and couldn't afford it just to pay back others that is where they were nonchalant about other peoples money and lives.
This is so obviously true I can’t believe @YesThatsMe is arguing
Quote from: YitzyS
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Offline chevron

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #1988 on: February 11, 2019, 01:12:02 AM »
The confusion is, a ponzi scheme as we know it, involves something like maddoff, pure fiction. @YesThatsMe is arguing that it was a legit business. Borrowing from A to pay B and keep business afloat is done every day in corporate america..

Offline S209

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #1989 on: February 11, 2019, 01:39:24 AM »
The confusion is, a ponzi scheme as we know it, involves something like maddoff, pure fiction. @YesThatsMe is arguing that it was a legit business. Borrowing from A to pay B and keep business afloat is done every day in corporate america..
But borrowing from A to pay B, and then B to pay C, when there are no funds actually being used for the core business, is a regular Ponzi scheme. Obviously.
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Offline Emkay

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #1990 on: February 11, 2019, 05:56:13 AM »
But borrowing from A to pay B, and then B to pay C, when there are no funds actually being used for the core business, is a regular Ponzi scheme. Obviously.
Although most times that this occurs it's not precisely like that. It's 1) borrow from A to buy merchandise, 2) use the proceeds to repay A, 3) borrow from B to buy merchandise... 3 may be before 2 at times.

Offline Chief Rabbi of New York

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #1991 on: February 11, 2019, 07:03:04 AM »
The only time it was risk free was when PFS put up collateral to match the cost of the original coin deals that they did with us.


How is this risk free ? Let’s say PFS didn’t pay, and then you didn’t pay with the collateral that you had ?
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Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #1992 on: February 11, 2019, 07:28:32 AM »
How is this risk free ? Let’s say PFS didn’t pay, and then you didn’t pay with the collateral that you had ?
Not risk free, but risk seriously mitigated by a third party with a reputation on the line holding collateral

Offline AussieMan

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #1993 on: February 11, 2019, 07:42:15 AM »

But this story was not a Ponzi.
Was not to begin with when you were there, but became one

Anyone lending to them or buying groups with no financials as mentioned above have to realize the risk of it becoming a Ponzi scheme and they will have no way of knowing it.

Offline gingyguy

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #1994 on: February 11, 2019, 08:26:51 AM »
by the way the idea is to not have an email address all spelled out to minimize spam from web crawlers
in that case i stand correcected. however the email is spelled out multiple times all over the forum
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Offline LNS

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #1995 on: February 11, 2019, 09:52:30 AM »
Makes no sense
They are 12-20 million in the hole
When they were 3 million in the hole they didn’t realize they were sinking ?
Ponzi scheme

+1 put all their intentions aside



Offline jj1000

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #1996 on: February 11, 2019, 10:05:53 AM »
Makes no sense
They are 12-20 million in the hole
When they were 3 million in the hole they didn’t realize they were sinking ?
Ponzi scheme
What was their monthly charging history?

Is 3 million what they swiped in a month? Or was it 15 million, 50 million, etc.

I have no idea, but if someone knows it'd help answer your question.
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Offline zale

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #1997 on: February 11, 2019, 03:36:51 PM »
What was their monthly charging history?

Is 3 million what they swiped in a month? Or was it 15 million, 50 million, etc.

I have no idea, but if someone knows it'd help answer your question.

I might be wrong but I think there is some confusion here.

The “Kingston Ave merchant” is about $4 million+ in the hole. Someone on this thread mentioned that there is a new scandal coming to light about a merchant who is $12 million in the hole. I think these are two different stories.

Offline Chief Rabbi of New York

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #1998 on: February 12, 2019, 07:47:26 AM »
Wow
Still no write up on DDMS

Maybe these stories are not true ?
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Offline JACKBLUE

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #1999 on: February 12, 2019, 10:30:51 AM »
Wow
Still no write up on DDMS

Maybe these stories are not true ?
From what I’m hearing from people is that it’s not over.... they used to pay in full every statement and now they’re making just minimum payments and they claim they’re not doing so well in their business but they hope to straighten out.....  also they’re didn’t run away and they’re picking up phone calls (at least so far)........ let’s hope they STRAIGHTEN OUT......!