Topic Wiki

https://www.dansdeals.com/more/dans-commentary/dark-side-earning-credit-card-points-psa-dont-swipe-others/

https://www.mixcloud.com/zev-brenner/talkline-with-zev-brenner-on-credit-card-scams-affecting-the-orthodox-jewish-community/

http://podcast.headlinesbook.com/e/31616-credit-card-miles-and-points-swiping-for-rewards-buying-and-selling-miles-is-it-assur-and-a-chillul-hashem-or-a-great-way-for-a-side-parnassah/



BEFORE SWIPING FOR SOMEONE READ THIS: (first hand story)

https://forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=36812.msg2062371#msg2062371
https://www.dansdeals.com/more/dans-commentary/dark-side-earning-credit-card-points-psa-dont-swipe-others/#comment-1399884


Dan's warning to DDF:
I hope people realize that any buying group or anyone else that gets merchandise in advance of payment can go south at any time. That's even if you get a check at the time of delivery.
X-posting as I don't want anyone to say that I never put a warning here.

A story that ended up in court - https://iapps.courts.state.ny.us/nyscef/DocumentList?docketId=iRcRHuyZUdOIx69D00a5XQ==&display=all&courtType=Kings%20County%20Supreme%20Court&resultsPageNum=1


I am one of the biggest buyers for buying groups, I have done millions in transactions and have sent to every group there is over the past 3 years. Most buying groups are okay, some scan in slower than others, some pay slower than others - most will lose a few packages over the year. You can research and find which are better for you.

However there is a bigger problem now with Amazon itself.  Amazon in the past has been great with any problems always ready with a refund for lost packages even if it was thousands of dollars. Lately Amazon has clamped down and has tagged these buying groups addresses  in their systems as "freight forwarder" and now no longer will fix any problem you have whatsoever. Doesn't matter what the problem is, even if it shows the package was never delivered, amazon will not help you in any way. Their copy and paste response will always be "this item was sent to a freight forwarder and we're unable to replace or refund the item. We recommend contacting your freight forwarder for more details, as we don't have any more insight or information regarding this matter, For more information about sending items via freight forwarders, please visit our Help Pages: https://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=201117950." As well the amazon drivers either must know this or have been increasingly bad at delivering packages because the numbers of packages missing has gone up astronomically. Previously you would have very few packages missing, now the past 3 months I have had 59 "lost" packages. I now have over $15,000 of loses and some guy in Delaware is probably living the life with all the stuff he stole from me. I will survive, I have made a lot more than $15,000 over the years however just a warning to others here that things are not as they used to be and it really is no longer worth doing buring groups with all the loses piling up

« Last edited by Yo ssi on July 24, 2023, 06:47:26 PM »

Author Topic: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others  (Read 1183407 times)

Offline yelped

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #2240 on: February 22, 2019, 02:04:06 PM »
Ouch. Makes the meaning of Public Service Announcement all the more clear.

Offline Dan

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #2241 on: February 22, 2019, 02:04:16 PM »
Its a big mess, and this isn't the only story happening right now - aside from Sterling there are at least 3 more stories that I know of going on right now.
Wow.
Can we get a name for each of these cases going on now? Can't keep them all straight.

How much money are you in for? Do you plan on disputing?
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Offline whYME

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #2242 on: February 22, 2019, 02:06:05 PM »
Its a big mess, and this isn't the only story happening right now - aside from Sterling there are at least 3 more stories that I know of going on right now.
Just to clarify, what you're talking about is not the sterling case, right?

Offline PSA

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #2243 on: February 22, 2019, 02:20:05 PM »
Wow.
Can we get a name for each of these cases going on now? Can't keep them all straight.

How much money are you in for? Do you plan on disputing?
I can't comment much on the other stories as I'm not involved but there are others that are on the forum that are, and they can speak up. One involves a lighting company - whom the owner is actually a relative of the Toner guy, and the other is a real estate business which is also 10's of millions of dollars

A few 100k. Haven't decided yet on the right course of action

Offline PSA

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #2244 on: February 22, 2019, 02:23:49 PM »
Just to clarify, what you're talking about is not the sterling case, right?
nope. That story is small beans compared to the rest of them

Offline AJK

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #2245 on: February 22, 2019, 02:34:50 PM »
@PSA Thanks for reporting your first-hand experience.  Hope it gets resolved to your satisfaction.

How are you planning to deal with the money you're out?
2015: 116K bkd | 1.6M brnd | F: OZ,NH,AA,EK | J: UA,CA,TK,DL,TN,AF,VA | LIH,NRT,ROR,PEK,CNS,BOB,MEL,TLV & Pacific Hopper

Offline Dan

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #2246 on: February 22, 2019, 02:41:31 PM »
I can't comment much on the other stories as I'm not involved but there are others that are on the forum that are, and they can speak up. One involves a lighting company - whom the owner is actually a relative of the Toner guy, and the other is a real estate business which is also 10's of millions of dollars

A few 100k. Haven't decided yet on the right course of action
OMG.
Can you share more on what exactly you thought you were swiping for, how long this went on for, etc?
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Offline Redbull3

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #2247 on: February 22, 2019, 02:47:08 PM »
Its a big mess, and this isn't the only story happening right now - aside from Sterling there are at least 3 more stories that I know of going on right now.
Your post shed a lot of light so thank you for that. Sorry for your personal losses here. So basically these retailers are coming to individuals (or possibly as you mentioned loan sharks) for their credit lines because they can't get normal regular loans. The biggest red flag (or first question someone should ask) is why are you coming to me in the first place? Where is your credit card or LOC to do this. There's probably a good reason the banks didn't give them the credit needed in the first place.
I get it that loans are hard to get and sometimes lending to a friend makes sense. But man you got to be really smart and careful about it - and act like you're a bank and do your due diligence, understand the business model and check the financials and even pay the place a physical visit (all things banks do).
Just my speculation but seems there is this very trusting culture amongst ourselves because we share common religion and other similarities - which is so nice and amazing in some ways but so risky in this way. Many people are uneducated in the matters of serious business loans and don't properly assess risks, they just jump at the points. And make no mistake these are serious loans. I feel like people treat these numbers (credit, credit lines, balances, points) as numbers on a screen. Almost an imaginery, fake number. Ask someone to go into the bank and withdraw their life savings and give it to you for a small % gain and they probably would hesitate more than doing the exact same thing via cc.
Just really sad.

Offline AJK

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #2248 on: February 22, 2019, 02:50:17 PM »
Just my speculation but seems there is this very trusting culture amongst ourselves because we share common religion and other similarities - which is so nice and amazing in some ways but so risky in this way.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affinity_fraud
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Offline Pad18

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #2249 on: February 22, 2019, 02:54:35 PM »
OMG I hope you and all the victim will be fine.

Wiki updated.

Offline Chief Rabbi of New York

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #2250 on: February 22, 2019, 04:14:33 PM »

A few 100k. Haven't decided yet on the right course of action

Wow
I feel for you
I wished other people would of stopped saying troll when I tried warning people.
Show Some Respect for Me, I am The Chief Rabbi of New York :)

Offline yitzgar

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #2251 on: February 22, 2019, 04:22:57 PM »
Your post shed a lot of light so thank you for that. Sorry for your personal losses here. So basically these retailers are coming to individuals (or possibly as you mentioned loan sharks) for their credit lines because they can't get normal regular loans. The biggest red flag (or first question someone should ask) is why are you coming to me in the first place? Where is your credit card or LOC to do this. There's probably a good reason the banks didn't give them the credit needed in the first place.
I get it that loans are hard to get and sometimes lending to a friend makes sense. But man you got to be really smart and careful about it - and act like you're a bank and do your due diligence, understand the business model and check the financials and even pay the place a physical visit (all things banks do).
Just my speculation but seems there is this very trusting culture amongst ourselves because we share common religion and other similarities - which is so nice and amazing in some ways but so risky in this way. Many people are uneducated in the matters of serious business loans and don't properly assess risks, they just jump at the points. And make no mistake these are serious loans. I feel like people treat these numbers (credit, credit lines, balances, points) as numbers on a screen. Almost an imaginery, fake number. Ask someone to go into the bank and withdraw their life savings and give it to you for a small % gain and they probably would hesitate more than doing the exact same thing via cc.
Just really sad.
All very well said

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #2254 on: February 22, 2019, 04:52:24 PM »
https://www.bhol.co.il/forums/topic.asp?cat_id=4&topic_id=2336851&forum_id=771

See #11

@Dan If you agree to post these pieces of advice on a regular basis on DDMS, I am willing to translate it into as many languages as needed.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Offline Pad18

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #2255 on: February 22, 2019, 05:13:09 PM »
https://www.bhol.co.il/forums/topic.asp?cat_id=4&topic_id=2336851&forum_id=771

See #11

@Dan If you agree to post these pieces of advice on a regular basis on DDMS, I am willing to translate it into as many languages as needed.

#17 .. nunu

Offline PSA

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Offline PSA

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #2257 on: February 22, 2019, 05:20:47 PM »
#17 .. nunu
Actually probably one of the more important ones.  I know more then one person that was coerced/pressured to give cards despite wife's hesitancy...

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #2258 on: February 22, 2019, 05:31:15 PM »
Actually probably one of the more important ones.  I know more then one person that was coerced/pressured to give cards despite wife's hesitancy...

If you follow the advice so you will never came to the number #17 when asked to give up cc ..

And the "nunu" is because I didn't see that coming.

But I agree 💯
Share, be open and listen to your wife and it's garantie to have a good life. Because happy marriage = happy life.

Offline PSA

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #2259 on: February 23, 2019, 08:01:09 PM »
OMG.
Can you share more on what exactly you thought you were swiping for, how long this went on for, etc?
It's been going on for at least 7-8 years. Could be even longer

@PSA

How are you planning to deal with the money you're out?
Still not 100% sure what the best course of action is. Disputing can potentially cause legal issues down the road if one doesn't say the full truth. Defaulting is the safest option but obviously involves screwing up your credit, dealing with some type of a settlement or even worse if it ends up in court.