PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others

[Ephcc90]

Oy.

See 18 USC 1014
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1014

[YesThatsMe]

True to an extent. In your (self-identified somewhere else) community, it's unfortunately true to a degree. But that's not the whole BP. Maybe you live in Willy.

No, Lakewood. And am currently sitting in a 3 block radius of Shreicher. Wtvr.

[knowitall]

Do people realize that the logical next step is the banks and FBI getting involved against the victims for fraudulent income declarations?

Do the “experts” here think there’s really a chance that the victims can sit?

[churnbabychurn]

Wow.  I PITY YOU.

This S***** sure lives in an expensive house (Zestimate $2,094,259, would sell for $3MM), and his kids are all mesudar. But good luck, the house is definitely in an LLC (probably retro transferred) and you won't see a penny there. Other than that he prob has 0 assets (like 90% of the people in Chareidy America who own a house and some brand name clothes and sit in seat 3C).

Oy, we have come a far way since the camps. Our grandparents who came to America found a land where opportunity abounded. They were happy to work and live w/o the fear of the last 2,000 years.

The next generation learned to take materialism to a whole new level, becoming the ultimate Americans. And generation 3 knows no answer other than debt. "Everyone has it" "What am I, a neb" "Yoish I love it I need it" etc. etc. etc.

"דרייט קרעדיט קארדס" is in Chareidy America today considered normal. How can a community which shuns the professions ever keep the Champ-Des-Elysees which 13th Ave has become busy? Pay for leases (-another form of debt) on Escalades and Navigators? Fly to Israel in first and stay at the WAJ? Make Chasuna for $200K a side? Buy $5K Shtreimels and Sheitels every 2-3 years?

Credit cards, LOC's, triple mortgages, Amazon Loans, and now - screwing the rest.

The Chareidy Tri State communites are the Soddom of our times. Everything is money money money. Kavod Kavod Kavod. SAD.

There's tons of massive financial success in the community. (And it's not by being professionals.) I fully agree that the gashmius/materialistic values is our biggest problem, but is driven by financial success.

There are theives as well, and I'm sure some who borrow to live the lifestyle, but they can't be the majority.

[boruchmig]

There's tons of massive financial success in the community. (And it's not by being professionals.) I fully agree that the gashmius/materialistic values is our biggest problem, but is driven by financial success.

There are theives as well, and I'm sure some who borrow to live the lifestyle, but they can't be the majority.

"גלייב מיר, איך ווייס וואס איך רעד."
One quote the the thieves often use

[knowitall]

There's tons of massive financial success in the community. (And it's not by being professionals.) I fully agree that the gashmius/materialistic values is our biggest problem, but is driven by financial success.

There are theives as well, and I'm sure some who borrow to live the lifestyle, but they can't be the majority.

True, most people don’t steal to live their life in luxury, but as a community we got a HUGE problem keeping up with the Joneses/Schwartzes
What % of the frum community do you think lives within its means?

[YesThatsMe]

"גלייב מיר, איך ווייס וואס איך רעד."
One quote the the thieves often use

Oh yeah...

[YesThatsMe]

True, most people don’t steal to live their life in luxury, but as a community we got a HUGE problem keeping up with the Joneses/Schwartzes
What % of the frum community do you think lives within its means?

I'd be surprised if it's more than 25%. Tuition and housing alone knock out most people in round 1.

[zale]

Oy, we have come a far way since the camps. Our grandparents who came to America found a land where opportunity abounded. They were happy to work and live w/o the fear of the last 2,000 years.

If our grandparents had easier ways of making a living, what makes you think they would take the regular/harder way?

The issue here is that people don’t understand that credit card lines of credit is not free money and it’s not your money. If those same people were asked to loan hard cash they either would:

1. Not do it
2. Not loan nearly as much
3. Not loan without doing serious due diligence and ensuring that proper contracts are in place.

[zale]

Do people realize that the logical next step is the banks and FBI getting involved against the victims for fraudulent income declarations?

I hope not.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/finance.yahoo.com/amphtml/news/lie-about-income-credit-card-application-190558997.html

[cmey]

To make points and rewards, people I know swiped their ink card at Toners.com and got 5p per dollar, they gave $200K made 1M points and sold for $15K every 6 weeks.... so they didn’t ask for what they’re swiping.... making $15K every 6 weeks makes you addicted to swipe more.

Someone doing 15k in profit every six weeks for a few years could be out 500k and still come out ahead....

[joey89]

Do people realize that the logical next step is the banks and FBI getting involved against the victims for fraudulent income declarations?

Not everyone has fraudulent income claims. I have total CL about 5x my declared income

[churnbabychurn]

True, most people don’t steal to live their life in luxury, but as a community we got a HUGE problem keeping up with the Joneses/Schwartzes
What % of the frum community do you think lives within its means?

What percentage of the community are wealthy? Higher then most people think.

[Yehuda25]

There's tons of massive financial success in the community. (And it's not by being professionals.) I fully agree that the gashmius/materialistic values is our biggest problem, but is driven by financial success.

There are theives as well, and I'm sure some who borrow to live the lifestyle, but they can't be the majority.

+1

[JACKBLUE]

Someone doing 15k in profit every six weeks for a few years could be out 500k and still come out ahead....

Explain please

[joey89]

Someone doing 15k in profit every six weeks for a few years could be out 500k and still come out ahead....

Unless there is undeclared income and then the IRS will want its share. Additionally by Madoff those that came out ahead were required to return their profits to the victims.

[cmey]

Explain please

15k worth of points every six weeks = $120k a year. Some were doing this over five years. That’s over $500k profit...

[PSA]

This is what makes the whole thing even scarier to me. It sounds like there was a secondary market for credits card swipes. Were the credit card swipes being bundled and sold down the line, like in the secondary mortgage market?  If that is true the  credit cards funds could have ended up anywhere; floundering businesses, hard money lenders, etc. making things that much more complicated to unravel.
.

No. They weren't. Was all used for his actual business or paying his vendors

[knowitall]

Unless there is undeclared income and then the IRS will want its share. Additionally by Madoff those that came out ahead were required to return their profits to the victims.

https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2018-recovering-madoff-money/

[joey89]

https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2018-recovering-madoff-money/

Iirc the Wilpons (owners of the Mets) were required to pay back a large amount of money which led to them being unable to properly run the Mets and they had to sell equity to raise funds.