Topic Wiki

https://www.dansdeals.com/more/dans-commentary/dark-side-earning-credit-card-points-psa-dont-swipe-others/

https://www.mixcloud.com/zev-brenner/talkline-with-zev-brenner-on-credit-card-scams-affecting-the-orthodox-jewish-community/

http://podcast.headlinesbook.com/e/31616-credit-card-miles-and-points-swiping-for-rewards-buying-and-selling-miles-is-it-assur-and-a-chillul-hashem-or-a-great-way-for-a-side-parnassah/



BEFORE SWIPING FOR SOMEONE READ THIS: (first hand story)

https://forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=36812.msg2062371#msg2062371
https://www.dansdeals.com/more/dans-commentary/dark-side-earning-credit-card-points-psa-dont-swipe-others/#comment-1399884


Dan's warning to DDF:
I hope people realize that any buying group or anyone else that gets merchandise in advance of payment can go south at any time. That's even if you get a check at the time of delivery.
X-posting as I don't want anyone to say that I never put a warning here.

A story that ended up in court - https://iapps.courts.state.ny.us/nyscef/DocumentList?docketId=iRcRHuyZUdOIx69D00a5XQ==&display=all&courtType=Kings%20County%20Supreme%20Court&resultsPageNum=1


I am one of the biggest buyers for buying groups, I have done millions in transactions and have sent to every group there is over the past 3 years. Most buying groups are okay, some scan in slower than others, some pay slower than others - most will lose a few packages over the year. You can research and find which are better for you.

However there is a bigger problem now with Amazon itself.  Amazon in the past has been great with any problems always ready with a refund for lost packages even if it was thousands of dollars. Lately Amazon has clamped down and has tagged these buying groups addresses  in their systems as "freight forwarder" and now no longer will fix any problem you have whatsoever. Doesn't matter what the problem is, even if it shows the package was never delivered, amazon will not help you in any way. Their copy and paste response will always be "this item was sent to a freight forwarder and we're unable to replace or refund the item. We recommend contacting your freight forwarder for more details, as we don't have any more insight or information regarding this matter, For more information about sending items via freight forwarders, please visit our Help Pages: https://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=201117950." As well the amazon drivers either must know this or have been increasingly bad at delivering packages because the numbers of packages missing has gone up astronomically. Previously you would have very few packages missing, now the past 3 months I have had 59 "lost" packages. I now have over $15,000 of loses and some guy in Delaware is probably living the life with all the stuff he stole from me. I will survive, I have made a lot more than $15,000 over the years however just a warning to others here that things are not as they used to be and it really is no longer worth doing buring groups with all the loses piling up

« Last edited by Yo ssi on July 24, 2023, 06:47:26 PM »

Author Topic: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others  (Read 1183575 times)

Offline coralsnake

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #2300 on: February 23, 2019, 10:49:37 PM »
Iirc the Wilsons (owners of the Mets) were required to pay back a large amount of money which led to them being unable to properly run the Mets and they had to sell equity to raise funds.

Wilson from Dennis the Menace or Cast Away?
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Offline joey89

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #2301 on: February 23, 2019, 10:55:39 PM »
Wilson from Dennis the Menace or Cast Away?
Auto correct from Wilpons, sorry

Offline coralsnake

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #2302 on: February 23, 2019, 10:57:54 PM »
Auto correct from Wilpons, sorry
Lets be fair- they weren’t properly running the Mets before Madoff either.
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Offline joey89

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #2303 on: February 23, 2019, 11:03:09 PM »
Lets be fair- they weren’t properly running the Mets before Madoff either.
True
But look at that drop in payroll

Offline joey89

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #2304 on: February 23, 2019, 11:32:26 PM »
Haven't decided yet on the right course of action
It’s probably best to discuss this with a competent lawyer before you take a step you might regret

Offline chevron

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #2305 on: February 23, 2019, 11:47:18 PM »
I know many huge frum highly profitable legit businesses in e-commerce etc.

Many if not most, bring in outside controllers, CFO, operations manager etc..

It's easy to build a business, it's hard to grow it in a healthy legal way.

Offline bobthebuilder

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #2306 on: February 23, 2019, 11:48:57 PM »
My opinion on the matter is, once Sterling went down, anyone that had money/CC charges with these other companies freeked out and demanded their money back. When everyone wants money, the quarter runs out, and the ride is over. Most businesses have debt, but they dont expect to have to pay it down overnight. Regardless, if its too god to be true, it aint. I pity the poor souls that are stuck in a  big pile of doodoo, but it was their own fault for blindly "lending" thousands to someone without any regard to consistences.

Offline S209

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #2307 on: February 23, 2019, 11:53:25 PM »
15k worth of points every six weeks = $120k a year. Some were doing this over five years. That’s over $500k profit...
Agreed, technically you’re right, assuming it was a 6 week cycle and people were having the same amount swiped each time and netting 2-3%, after a few years they would automatically have a net gain even if they’d lose the full principal (people were in this for more than 5years). OTOH they spent that money as they got it (these guys were probably living paycheck-to-paycheck, and by paycheck i mean points sold) and are now left holding the bag with that massive amount due.

Unless there is undeclared income and then the IRS will want its share. Additionally by Madoff those that came out ahead were required to return their profits to the victims.
You’re right about Madoff but this is hardly the same situation- here the “profits” came from a third party, not as a “return on investment” by the fund.

All that said, I’m SURE the vast majority of victims are out most of their money, although the % they earned until now probably(hopefully) offset a decent amount.
Quote from: YitzyS
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Offline S209

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #2308 on: February 23, 2019, 11:54:33 PM »
My opinion on the matter is, once Sterling went down, anyone that had money/CC charges with these other companies freeked out and demanded their money back. When everyone wants money, the quarter runs out, and the ride is over. Most businesses have debt, but they dont expect to have to pay it down overnight. Regardless, if its too god to be true, it aint. I pity the poor souls that are stuck in a  big pile of doodoo, but it was their own fault for blindly "lending" thousands to someone without any regard to consistences.
Victim blaming
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Offline bobthebuilder

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #2309 on: February 23, 2019, 11:57:02 PM »
Victim blaming
Absolutely. Are you suggesting they were smart "investors"?

Offline S209

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #2310 on: February 24, 2019, 12:03:02 AM »
Absolutely. Are you suggesting they were smart "investors"?
Sure. Earning 16-24% annually with no actual cash outlays and possible legal protections in the case of default? Heck, even credit card companies can’t do as well as that.

We’re already in JS, nothing you can do :)
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Offline bobthebuilder

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #2311 on: February 24, 2019, 12:13:04 AM »
@Dan, Why dont you post precautions on the main site?

Offline Yehuda25

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #2312 on: February 24, 2019, 12:58:55 AM »
@Dan, Why dont you post precautions on the main site?
too late.
“To avoid criticism say nothing, do nothing, be nothing.”


― Aristotle

Offline joey89

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #2313 on: February 24, 2019, 01:00:14 AM »
too late.
Not for the next guy.
People will forget in due time.

Offline knowitall

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #2314 on: February 24, 2019, 01:03:24 AM »
too late.
Oh don’t worry. There will be more. Whether it’s a cc farm, Ponzi, MLM, swipe for points, or some new scam, many in the frum community:
1) blindly trust anyone with peyos.
2) don’t view cc swiping as lending (& think u can dispute anything)
3) are just plain naive

Offline yesitsme

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #2315 on: February 24, 2019, 01:05:00 AM »
and the other is a real estate business which is also 10's of millions of dollars
Joel Klein?
["-"]

Offline Saver2000

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #2316 on: February 24, 2019, 02:12:31 AM »
15k worth of points every six weeks = $120k a year. Some were doing this over five years. That’s over $500k profit...
Lol. It's cost money to live. Who said he had another job? He made $120k a year, and spent 120 a year. Chances are he isn't stashing 500k.

Offline Don Will

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #2317 on: February 24, 2019, 09:27:50 AM »
Absolutely. Are you suggesting they were smart "investors"?
Ever hear of the expression " don't knock a man while he's down"?
None of the victims need to hear your vitriol right now. If you have nothing constructive to say, then just shut up and say nothing.

Offline AussieMan

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #2318 on: February 24, 2019, 09:28:09 AM »
Were all these points a significant % of the market?
Will the value of points rise if supply goes down if people stop swiping like this?

Offline Dan

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #2319 on: February 24, 2019, 09:30:57 AM »
I guess now we know why points got so cheap.
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.