Topic Wiki

https://www.dansdeals.com/more/dans-commentary/dark-side-earning-credit-card-points-psa-dont-swipe-others/

https://www.mixcloud.com/zev-brenner/talkline-with-zev-brenner-on-credit-card-scams-affecting-the-orthodox-jewish-community/

http://podcast.headlinesbook.com/e/31616-credit-card-miles-and-points-swiping-for-rewards-buying-and-selling-miles-is-it-assur-and-a-chillul-hashem-or-a-great-way-for-a-side-parnassah/



BEFORE SWIPING FOR SOMEONE READ THIS: (first hand story)

https://forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=36812.msg2062371#msg2062371
https://www.dansdeals.com/more/dans-commentary/dark-side-earning-credit-card-points-psa-dont-swipe-others/#comment-1399884


Dan's warning to DDF:
I hope people realize that any buying group or anyone else that gets merchandise in advance of payment can go south at any time. That's even if you get a check at the time of delivery.
X-posting as I don't want anyone to say that I never put a warning here.

A story that ended up in court - https://iapps.courts.state.ny.us/nyscef/DocumentList?docketId=iRcRHuyZUdOIx69D00a5XQ==&display=all&courtType=Kings%20County%20Supreme%20Court&resultsPageNum=1


I am one of the biggest buyers for buying groups, I have done millions in transactions and have sent to every group there is over the past 3 years. Most buying groups are okay, some scan in slower than others, some pay slower than others - most will lose a few packages over the year. You can research and find which are better for you.

However there is a bigger problem now with Amazon itself.  Amazon in the past has been great with any problems always ready with a refund for lost packages even if it was thousands of dollars. Lately Amazon has clamped down and has tagged these buying groups addresses  in their systems as "freight forwarder" and now no longer will fix any problem you have whatsoever. Doesn't matter what the problem is, even if it shows the package was never delivered, amazon will not help you in any way. Their copy and paste response will always be "this item was sent to a freight forwarder and we're unable to replace or refund the item. We recommend contacting your freight forwarder for more details, as we don't have any more insight or information regarding this matter, For more information about sending items via freight forwarders, please visit our Help Pages: https://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=201117950." As well the amazon drivers either must know this or have been increasingly bad at delivering packages because the numbers of packages missing has gone up astronomically. Previously you would have very few packages missing, now the past 3 months I have had 59 "lost" packages. I now have over $15,000 of loses and some guy in Delaware is probably living the life with all the stuff he stole from me. I will survive, I have made a lot more than $15,000 over the years however just a warning to others here that things are not as they used to be and it really is no longer worth doing buring groups with all the loses piling up

« Last edited by Yo ssi on July 24, 2023, 06:47:26 PM »

Author Topic: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others  (Read 1182866 times)

Offline zale

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #2700 on: February 26, 2019, 01:43:22 PM »
Amazing that people are looking for his assets before he was even sued and before there is a judgment. D&C Law will protect against fraudulent transfers and Bankruptcy Ct can drag his assets back even easier. The fact that there hasnt been a lawsuit filed already is astonishing.

It appears that many of the victims are first seeing what their other options are. A lawsuit will be costly and there is no guaranty that you will win, or even if you win, to recover the funds. If you can do a successful chargeback (which is highly unlikely) that would be the best option.

If you are going to sue, do it now. First to get a judgment can be first to collect. Just make sure you speak with a competent lawyer to ensure you have a real case.


Offline zale

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #2701 on: February 26, 2019, 01:44:39 PM »
It might be that hesitation to file a lawsuit is due to 1. Wanting to get Halachic permission to do so, and 2. Fear of this evolving into a criminal case.

That shouldn't take more than a five minute call with a rav.

Offline LoLo

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #2702 on: February 26, 2019, 01:45:33 PM »
2. Fear of this evolving into a criminal case.
Most likely.

Offline gingyguy

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #2703 on: February 26, 2019, 01:59:56 PM »
That shouldn't take more than a five minute call with a rav.
AFAIK it requires a bais din
May you slide down the banister of happiness & get many splinters of success up your career.

Offline chinagel

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #2704 on: February 26, 2019, 02:00:48 PM »
That shouldn't take more than a five minute call with a rav.
?? ??? :o

Offline chayal101

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #2705 on: February 26, 2019, 02:07:57 PM »
I am truly horrified by this story!! At the same time, I feel like many names have been exposed in this thread and it's uneccessary being that those involved already KNOW all the 'names'  It's definitely bordering on Loshon Hora, and will cause more harm than good, based on the differences of opinions not all info shared here is 100% accurate or factual... Keep in mind this is a public forum and everybody can access your posts. I don't feel like this is beneficial in any way. Victims can share their stories without using names, and if anyone has advice they can offer it without using any names! PMs works as well! Hoping for the best outcome for all of the victims!!
Mods, if there's a way for you to clean up alot of the names mentioned in this thread, that really should be done!
I will be opening a new thread where we can discuss contributing to running an ad campaign anti-credit card swiping businesses.
Chaya L.

Offline ExGingi

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #2706 on: February 26, 2019, 02:09:14 PM »
That shouldn't take more than a five minute call with a rav.

A Rov that will issue a ruling on such a case over a 5 minute phone call, where

2. Fear of this evolving into a criminal case.
Most likely.

well...


I can tell you from personal experience that when there are criminal issues involved, most Rabbonim try to avoid answering shaalos. When I needed a psak I was given the runaround, until one Rov who happens to be related to me, called up another Rov in EY, who had a relationship with, and put HaGaon R' Mendel Shafran on the phone, and he was the only Rov who was willing to give me a clear Halachic ruling!
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Offline PSA

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #2707 on: February 26, 2019, 02:13:58 PM »
Klein had long meetings with S****. They claim it's to benefit all involved but I have no doubt in my mind that they are working for him as well to fight anybody who tries disputing charges on their own.

If you pay them their fees they'll work for you to get the money back, but they are correct that unless you have clear proof that the charges were unauthorized, your stepping into dirty water trying to dispute, and the processing bank will most likely come after you.

Can also be a problem halachilally to dispute. Questions about lying, defrauding/stealing from the bank. AYLOR

The main reason why people aren't suing is bec. it's not a question if this will turn criminal, but a matter of when it'll become criminal. There is too much money, and parties involved here for it not to be.
Once you sue/dispute your connected to the story and subjecting yourself to questions, subpoenas etc.

Although non of the cardholders did anything illegal by swiping/lending their cards to someone else, people might just want to distance themselves from this story as much as they can.

« Last Edit: February 26, 2019, 03:38:45 PM by jj1000 »

Offline zale

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #2708 on: February 26, 2019, 02:15:17 PM »
?? ??? :o

You seem shocked. Here, let me enlighten you:

Rav Moshe Feinstein (Teshuvot Igrot Moshe, C.M. 2:11) permits requesting that a civil judge issue a preliminary injunction, an order to freeze the status quo of property until verifying its owner. Since a preliminary injunction does not entail judgment, seeking this order does not violate Halachah. Similarly, Rav Mordechai Eliyahu (Techumin 3:244) rules that one may utilize civil courts to collect an undisputed debt. Once again, no prohibition exists when no judgment is involved. Teshuvot Maharsham (2:252 and 3:195) cites Rav Avraham David Wahrmann as permitting the use of civil courts to collect an undisputed debt in places where Batei Din have no legal authority.

Certain legal matters can be done prior to going to a Beis Din. Your local Rav can advise you on this.

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #2709 on: February 26, 2019, 02:17:07 PM »
That shouldn't take more than a five minute call with a rav.
Huh? I thought it requires a Beis din.

Offline zale

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #2710 on: February 26, 2019, 02:22:41 PM »
Klein had long meetings with S****. They claim it's to benefit all involved but I have no doubt in my mind that they are working for him as well to fight anybody who tries disputing charges on their own.

If you pay them their fees they'll work for you to get the money back, but they are correct that unless you have clear proof that the charges were unauthorized, your stepping into dirty water trying to dispute, and the processing bank will most likely come after you.

Can also be a problem halachilally to dispute. Questions about lying, defrauding/stealing from the bank. AYLOR

The main reason why people aren't suing is bec. it's not a question if this will turn criminal, but a matter of when it'll become criminal. There is too much money, and parties involved here for it not to be.
Once you sue/dispute your connected to the story and subjecting yourself to questions, subpoenas etc.

Although non of the cardholders did anything illegal by swiping/lending their cards to someone else, people might just want to distance themselves from this story as much as they can.

The perpetrator can also be trying to instill fear in his victims by spreading that they will caught up in a criminal investigation if they try to sue him.

I'm not saying that can't happen, but everyone should be speaking to a competent lawyer to see what the risks are. Hearsay means nothing.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2019, 03:39:17 PM by jj1000 »

Offline stooges44

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #2711 on: February 26, 2019, 02:23:24 PM »
I am truly horrified by this story!! At the same time, I feel like many names have been exposed in this thread and it's uneccessary being that those involved already KNOW all the 'names'  It's definitely bordering on Loshon Hora, and will cause more harm than good, based on the differences of opinions not all info shared here is 100% accurate or factual... Keep in mind this is a public forum and everybody can access your posts. I don't feel like this is beneficial in any way. Victims can share their stories without using names, and if anyone has advice they can offer it without using any names! PMs works as well! Hoping for the best outcome for all of the victims!!
Mods, if there's a way for you to clean up alot of the names mentioned in this thread, that really should be done!
I will be opening a new thread where we can discuss contributing to running an ad campaign anti-credit card swiping businesses.

My thoughts as well.
If it's not free shipping it's not worth it.

Offline zale

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #2712 on: February 26, 2019, 02:27:49 PM »
Huh? I thought it requires a Beis din.

It does. But certain legal action may possibly be taken prior to a Beis Din. A Rav can advise you on that.

Offline Dan

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #2713 on: February 26, 2019, 02:29:59 PM »
I'm not saying that can't happen, but everyone should be speaking to a competent lawyer to see what the risks are. Hearsay means nothing.
+1.
Anyone who has not yet talked to a lawyer and Rov is insane.
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Offline PSA

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #2714 on: February 26, 2019, 02:47:40 PM »
The perpetrator can also be trying to instill fear in his victims by spreading that they will caught up in a criminal investigation if they try to sue him.

I'm not saying that can't happen, but everyone should be speaking to a competent lawyer to see what the risks are. Hearsay means nothing.
In this case it isn't. The banks have already initiated investigations but I agree with you. Everyone needs to do find their own legal, and rabinnical advice.

Offline Naftuli19

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #2715 on: February 26, 2019, 02:56:47 PM »
What can Transmedia do that merchants and corporations can't do?
They know alot of how banks operate etc... my uncle recently used them and they were able to dispute all charges even if they were technically legitimate charges.
Sometimes You Will Never Know the True Value of A Moment Until It's Become A Memory...

Offline Naftuli19

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #2716 on: February 26, 2019, 02:57:26 PM »
I am a long time ddfer. Got a new name for this purpose..

Some info that I gathered in the past 24 hours.

I hope its not too much info and I may get heat on this. But I feel I have to post this so people should know whats going on and whom to trust. And sorry for my lack of grammer skills...

This stricher case is far grather then the amazon business and credit cards.
There is alot of real estate involved here.
I just heard today that last week he sold one of the houses that he owned in B.P.

He took alot of cash from " investors" to buy lots to build warehouses on them. I personally know a few people who gave him around 250k each.

He is not picking up the phone anymore. His son in-law is handling his calles and he tells everybody to call Burach K. aka Transmadia.

Now a few facts about transmadia
They know very well how the banks operate  regarding how disputes work. They are so powerful that ashford watch company paid him like a insurance to protect them from customer disputes.

I have a close friend who got scammed by a different story not mentioned on this form by a very heimish bunch of ganuvim. The ganovim told him that they hired transmedia to help them both to get out of this mess. After 5 months of supposedly " working" he saw no results and the banks were still going after him every day. He tried to call his transmadia rep Sal B. (I believe its the same guy who testified in the gemach case on behalf of the gemach) and he was Basicly told to go fly a kite , don't call me anymore.

I met this morning with another victim in this case and he told me that a few yingerliet that hired transmadia for $7500 each that he should work on their behalf, they went to willi to meet With burach K. And were told about the same thing. Screw you. Can't help you. Go fly a kite.
Probably because he got involved with the S**** case and its a very big case....

There is someone in B.P. someone Whos last name starts with a P. . he supposedly helps people to get out of messes like this . although I heard good things about him. I have reason to believe that he works with transmedia hand in hand.
Last week (I believe it was) Wednesday there were a bunch of people at Mr P. House wanting to get advise how to proceed In this stricher case, in the middle of the meeting burach K. from transmadia walked in and tried to convince everybody not to dispute but to work with him. Obviously because it makes his work harder. ( wondering how dis Burch K. Know of this meeting that night)  Beaware he works for the merchant in this case its stricter. Not for the card holders the victims.
 by the way he charges 30% of the recovered money.

People go get professional legal help. maybe form a group and work together with a lawyer.
Transmedia is working with the merchant's and thats y they are telling everyone go fly a kite...
« Last Edit: February 26, 2019, 03:36:29 PM by jj1000 »
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Offline LoLo

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #2717 on: February 26, 2019, 02:58:48 PM »
They know alot of how banks operate etc... my uncle recently used them and they were able to dispute all charges even if they were technically legitimate charges.
Was it something you couldn't have done on your own? like, lie?

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #2718 on: February 26, 2019, 03:10:32 PM »
I am truly horrified by this story!! At the same time, I feel like many names have been exposed in this thread and it's uneccessary being that those involved already KNOW all the 'names'  It's definitely bordering on Loshon Hora, and will cause more harm than good, based on the differences of opinions not all info shared here is 100% accurate or factual... Keep in mind this is a public forum and everybody can access your posts. I don't feel like this is beneficial in any way. Victims can share their stories without using names, and if anyone has advice they can offer it without using any names! PMs works as well! Hoping for the best outcome for all of the victims!!
Mods, if there's a way for you to clean up alot of the names mentioned in this thread, that really should be done!
I will be opening a new thread where we can discuss contributing to running an ad campaign anti-credit card swiping businesses.
+1 I do not see the heter for mentioning names.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline Chief Rabbi of New York

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #2719 on: February 26, 2019, 03:21:19 PM »
+1 I do not see the heter for mentioning names.

-1 maybe it will help people stay away from them and save more would be victims
They should collect money in order to publish names in the Jewish papers
Call them out publicly
Show Some Respect for Me, I am The Chief Rabbi of New York :)