Author Topic: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others  (Read 215594 times)

Offline ExGingi

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #3090 on: March 05, 2019, 04:51:14 PM »
I know of one very competent posek specifically who holds like that although I'm entirely sure of the details so it's possible that I'm missing information about what he holds and when it would apply. You're welcome to PM if you want the name of the rav, I'm not going to post it here.
PM sent. Though for the benefit of the public, why don't you go to said Posek and get the details and scenario, and then report back.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Offline rileywiles23

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #3091 on: March 05, 2019, 04:54:57 PM »


The question is if there is a downside to disputing and trying that method before going the bankruptcy/settlement route. What's the worst case scenario? If you lose the dispute, does that make you ineligible to settle?

There is another thing to consider: In a normal scenario, when a customer wins a dispute, the cc issuer will then debit the balance from the merchant's receiving bank account. What happens when the merchant's bank account is already overdrawn or closed? Correct me if I'm wrong, but presumably the cc issuer will absorb the loss and write it off. Why would they be willing to absorb the loss if they can pin the responsibility on the customer? If multiple customers from a single merchant come forward with claims of millions of dollars the issuer will most certainly not be willing to absorb that.

The processing bank will absorb the loss, not the CC issuer but same difference.
 They won't absorb such a large loss easily
Life is as good as you make it...

Offline zale

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #3092 on: March 05, 2019, 05:01:51 PM »

The processing bank will absorb the loss, not the CC issuer but same difference.
 They won't absorb such a large loss easily

The cc issuer is not the processing bank?

If you get a card from Chase, Chase doesn’t process the payment?

Offline Denverite

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #3093 on: March 05, 2019, 05:10:05 PM »
I'll speak for myself, but it's not a matter of being triggered or attacking you over semantics. It's about fundamental misunderstandings which lead to the scams.

Ok, fair enough.  Definitely some financially unsophisticated, or overly trusting people (or whatever people want to call them because I truly don't want to offend anyone) got scammed or in the least drawn into something they didn't understand and my heart breaks for them and their losses.  Everyone is hammering me over my assumptions or word choices (which is fine, I'm a big girl and can take it) but I wouldn't assume these arrangements generally fell into the scam category without more information (maybe after getting more information it does fall into the scam category but right now we don't have that information). 

Please anyone feel free to address my actual question regarding whether the average cardholder that you know or yourself (obviously each individual case is different) actually had a net loss, after accounting for both recent unpaid bills and the value of points they received the whole time they were allowing their cards to be swiped. 

Just like it's probably a mis-characterization to label these cardholders investors, if a majority (or plurality or whatever standard you set) of these cardholders actually net money out of a multi-year arrangement with these owners, even accounting for recent losses, (and I truly don't know what to call these arrangements but I'm sure plenty of courts will address it) it might be a mis-characterization to call whatever their arrangements were a scam.

Offline zh cohen

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #3094 on: March 05, 2019, 05:15:36 PM »
Just you or another panel ?

I don't think he does panels. He records 1 on 1 interviews with several people on the same subject.

Online Zalc

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #3095 on: March 05, 2019, 05:23:01 PM »
No idea. Didn't know last time it was a panel either.
I don't think he does panels. He records 1 on 1 interviews with several people on the same subject.
This.

Nearly all his shows are a string of 1 on 1 interviews, usually 20-40 minutes in length (program is usually 2 hours or more)
If he is recording you later, he will probably reference others he spoke to and get your reaction, and vice versa.

Link: https://castbox.fm/va/1348308

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #3096 on: March 05, 2019, 05:32:09 PM »
I'm going to be interviewed by him tomorrow.
What topics should I bring up?
How to use and play the credit card game responsibly.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2019, 05:50:31 PM by churnbabychurn »

Offline zh cohen

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #3097 on: March 05, 2019, 07:09:09 PM »
I'm going to be interviewed by him tomorrow.
What topics should I bring up?

2 things to be aware of.

1- he has a hard time staying objective and listening when he has a strong opinion about something. Usually when someone he disagrees with is on the show they get steamrolled, although I have heard people push back against his lack of objectivity, and when called out he tries to correct for it.

I assume he will agree with you on this specific issue, especially regarding the need for better education, but if the conversation goes to price mistakes or other aspects of "the game" he might give you a hard time.

2 - he is a billionaire (with a B), who has mentioned several times on his show that he heard from banks that are reluctant to work with him because of the impression they get of frum yidden from the newspapers. He holds those frum yidden who end up in the headlines responsible for that.

Offline shapsam

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #3098 on: March 05, 2019, 07:40:20 PM »
2 - he is a billionaire (with a B), who has mentioned several times on his show that he heard from banks that are reluctant to work with him because of the impression they get of frum yidden from the newspapers. He holds those frum yidden who end up in the headlines responsible for that.
So he blames frum people when (according to him) the banks are bigots because of (non)stories that the media deliberately hypes up? that's called Stockholm Syndrome.

Offline Yard sale

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #3099 on: March 05, 2019, 07:50:21 PM »
2 things to be aware of.

1- he has a hard time staying objective and listening when he has a strong opinion about something. Usually when someone he disagrees with is on the show they get steamrolled, although I have heard people push back against his lack of objectivity, and when called out he tries to correct for it.

I assume he will agree with you on this specific issue, especially regarding the need for better education, but if the conversation goes to price mistakes or other aspects of "the game" he might give you a hard time.

2 - he is a billionaire (with a B), who has mentioned several times on his show that he heard from banks that are reluctant to work with him because of the impression they get of frum yidden from the newspapers. He holds those frum yidden who end up in the headlines responsible for that.

“who has mentioned several times on his show that he heard from banks that are reluctant to work with him because of the impression they get of frum yidden from the newspapers. He holds those frum yidden who end up in the headlines responsible for that.”


More likely due to the $7 Billion Extended Stay bankruptcy that a lot of lenders got burned on.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.forbes.com/sites/chloesorvino/2016/03/23/how-real-estate-billionaire-david-lichtenstein-bounced-back-from-a-7-5-billion-hotel-bankruptcy/amp/

“While the fiasco surely turned off some lenders from Lightstone forever, the firm has been able to get additional financing through its four non-traded office REITs.”

Interestingly enough he maxed out his credit cards to procure capital to buy his very first property. When the Extended Stay deal went bust, he was able to legally get out of a $7 billion dollar bad deal without taking too much of a personal hit, so he can definitely identify with at least a part of what people are going through.

Interviewees have claimed that he edits and tilts things towards his preconceived viewpoint so go in with that expectation.....

Online LoLo

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #3100 on: March 05, 2019, 07:54:01 PM »

Interviewees have claimed that he edits and tilts things towards his preconceived viewpoint so go in with that expectation.....
Hmm, so why would this be any different to magazines which he refuses to interview?

Offline zale

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #3101 on: March 05, 2019, 07:57:42 PM »


Interestingly enough he maxed out his credit cards to procure capital to buy his very first property.

That is very, very different than giving someone your credit card to swipe. While the interest on credit cards is pretty steep, he is still securing that loan with the property he is buying.

Offline justaregularguy

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #3102 on: March 05, 2019, 08:15:13 PM »
Oy this is the only hot thread on DDF and I’m totally not involved... :-\ :-\
nothings impossible- the word itself says Im possible

Offline Denverite

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #3103 on: March 05, 2019, 08:17:04 PM »

2 - he is a billionaire (with a B), who has mentioned several times on his show that he heard from banks that are reluctant to work with him because of the impression they get of frum yidden from the newspapers. He holds those frum yidden who end up in the headlines responsible for that.

So in light of this maybe Dan shouldn't mention the unconfirmed $50 million dollar amount of bank losses being thrown around, so as to stay focused on other relevant topics?

I also wouldn't go anywhere near any description of using and benefiting from credits cards as a game in any media outlet anywhere (even if the point is to emphasize "responsibly").  I personally don't think it's good for the Dan's Deals brand for him to talk about playing any kinds of credit card games.  Just like someone talked about earlier, any statement can go around the world in a second with today's technology.  DDMS is up there now with the big guns in this arena and the Boarding Area guys seem to like to call it the "travel hobby."  :P

Offline EP123

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #3104 on: March 05, 2019, 08:21:04 PM »
Seems some posts we're deleted. Who is interviewing Dan?