Topic Wiki

https://www.dansdeals.com/more/dans-commentary/dark-side-earning-credit-card-points-psa-dont-swipe-others/

https://www.mixcloud.com/zev-brenner/talkline-with-zev-brenner-on-credit-card-scams-affecting-the-orthodox-jewish-community/

http://podcast.headlinesbook.com/e/31616-credit-card-miles-and-points-swiping-for-rewards-buying-and-selling-miles-is-it-assur-and-a-chillul-hashem-or-a-great-way-for-a-side-parnassah/



BEFORE SWIPING FOR SOMEONE READ THIS: (first hand story)

https://forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=36812.msg2062371#msg2062371
https://www.dansdeals.com/more/dans-commentary/dark-side-earning-credit-card-points-psa-dont-swipe-others/#comment-1399884


Dan's warning to DDF:
I hope people realize that any buying group or anyone else that gets merchandise in advance of payment can go south at any time. That's even if you get a check at the time of delivery.
X-posting as I don't want anyone to say that I never put a warning here.

A story that ended up in court - https://iapps.courts.state.ny.us/nyscef/DocumentList?docketId=iRcRHuyZUdOIx69D00a5XQ==&display=all&courtType=Kings%20County%20Supreme%20Court&resultsPageNum=1


I am one of the biggest buyers for buying groups, I have done millions in transactions and have sent to every group there is over the past 3 years. Most buying groups are okay, some scan in slower than others, some pay slower than others - most will lose a few packages over the year. You can research and find which are better for you.

However there is a bigger problem now with Amazon itself.  Amazon in the past has been great with any problems always ready with a refund for lost packages even if it was thousands of dollars. Lately Amazon has clamped down and has tagged these buying groups addresses  in their systems as "freight forwarder" and now no longer will fix any problem you have whatsoever. Doesn't matter what the problem is, even if it shows the package was never delivered, amazon will not help you in any way. Their copy and paste response will always be "this item was sent to a freight forwarder and we're unable to replace or refund the item. We recommend contacting your freight forwarder for more details, as we don't have any more insight or information regarding this matter, For more information about sending items via freight forwarders, please visit our Help Pages: https://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=201117950." As well the amazon drivers either must know this or have been increasingly bad at delivering packages because the numbers of packages missing has gone up astronomically. Previously you would have very few packages missing, now the past 3 months I have had 59 "lost" packages. I now have over $15,000 of loses and some guy in Delaware is probably living the life with all the stuff he stole from me. I will survive, I have made a lot more than $15,000 over the years however just a warning to others here that things are not as they used to be and it really is no longer worth doing buring groups with all the loses piling up

« Last edited by Yo ssi on July 24, 2023, 06:47:26 PM »

Author Topic: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others  (Read 1182228 times)

Online LoLo

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #3100 on: March 05, 2019, 07:54:01 PM »

Interviewees have claimed that he edits and tilts things towards his preconceived viewpoint so go in with that expectation.....
Hmm, so why would this be any different to magazines which he refuses to interview?

Offline zale

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #3101 on: March 05, 2019, 07:57:42 PM »


Interestingly enough he maxed out his credit cards to procure capital to buy his very first property.

That is very, very different than giving someone your credit card to swipe. While the interest on credit cards is pretty steep, he is still securing that loan with the property he is buying.

Offline justaregularguy

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #3102 on: March 05, 2019, 08:15:13 PM »
Oy this is the only hot thread on DDF and I’m totally not involved... :-\ :-\
nothings impossible- the word itself says Im possible

Offline Denverite

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #3103 on: March 05, 2019, 08:17:04 PM »

2 - he is a billionaire (with a B), who has mentioned several times on his show that he heard from banks that are reluctant to work with him because of the impression they get of frum yidden from the newspapers. He holds those frum yidden who end up in the headlines responsible for that.

So in light of this maybe Dan shouldn't mention the unconfirmed $50 million dollar amount of bank losses being thrown around, so as to stay focused on other relevant topics?

I also wouldn't go anywhere near any description of using and benefiting from credits cards as a game in any media outlet anywhere (even if the point is to emphasize "responsibly").  I personally don't think it's good for the Dan's Deals brand for him to talk about playing any kinds of credit card games.  Just like someone talked about earlier, any statement can go around the world in a second with today's technology.  DDMS is up there now with the big guns in this arena and the Boarding Area guys seem to like to call it the "travel hobby."  :P

Offline EP123

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #3104 on: March 05, 2019, 08:21:04 PM »
Seems some posts we're deleted. Who is interviewing Dan?

Offline Mordyk

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #3105 on: March 05, 2019, 09:06:15 PM »
Seems some posts we're deleted. Who is interviewing Dan?
Was broken off to other threads
#TYH

Offline Denverite

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #3106 on: March 05, 2019, 09:28:49 PM »
Seems some posts we're deleted. Who is interviewing Dan?

Here you go:

Dovid Lichtenstein.  www.headlineshalacha.com

According to the ad in Mishpacha (just a few pages away from the Rabbinically approved ad for SellMyMilesNow.com..."trade in your miles for cash to get all those luxuries you've been dreaming of!") he has the "Most listened to Torah Program in the World." The ad says "Headlines Radio Show: Tackling Fascinating Modern Controversies From a Halachic Perspective."  It says you can also listen on Yeshiva World News and that he's got both Android and IOS aps.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2019, 09:32:20 PM by Denverite »

Offline knowitall

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #3107 on: March 05, 2019, 10:05:11 PM »
I’m not sure if Dan wants to discuss it on headlines or not, but people tend to bunch everything together and consider everything shady/shtick/scam/illegal. Sterling, farmers, buying groups, coin deals, MS,  a guy who opens a credit card for his Bro in law, a bochur who opens a cc and goes on a spending spree, and the regular family that has one 2% cashback Card that’s paid in full every month are all lumped together and before you know it, the entire Dansdeals is a scam.

There’s nothing illegitimate about chasing signup bonuses and paying off your balances in full on time.
/my 2 cents

Offline Dan

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #3108 on: March 05, 2019, 10:19:14 PM »
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Offline mmgfarb

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"JS [is] a fetid cesspool of unvarnished linguistic manure, with lots of useless drivel and post-padding." -Moishebatchy

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #3110 on: March 05, 2019, 10:38:06 PM »
Lol
Not even intentional, that's the only picture @Something Fishy took from both seminars :D
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Offline 12HRS

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #3111 on: March 05, 2019, 11:13:06 PM »
Lol, just noticed the first line of the slide from the DDS on the cruise: https://www.dansdeals.com/points-travel/trip-notes/antarctica-trip-notes-part-4-packing-list-journey-south-southernmost-shabbos/

Kind of surprised you needed that in for a group on the Antarctica cruise.

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #3112 on: March 05, 2019, 11:16:07 PM »

He's notorious for post interview edits.. don't think you would care much...

The full interview is always available in the "maareh mikomos" section. But never the less worth it to keep it in mind.




Offline 12HRS

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #3113 on: March 05, 2019, 11:17:14 PM »
Please anyone feel free to address my actual question regarding whether the average cardholder that you know or yourself (obviously each individual case is different) actually had a net loss, after accounting for both recent unpaid bills and the value of points they received the whole time they were allowing their cards to be swiped. 

Even if you are correct they still would not be able to handle a $200k loss in one shot. 99% of people would have either worked the extra $ into their budget or blown it on something.

Math would be relatively simple its the data you need but assuming a straight 2% return every time their card was swiped for 200k would mean a $4k gain. now you just need to know how many times it was swiped and paid back before defaulting.

12months x $4k = $48k so if they were doing it monthly would take just over 4 years of this volume with a 2% return. (which is unlikely most were doing that volume on a 2% card IMO)



Oy this is the only hot thread on DDF and I’m totally not involved... :-\ :-\

Consider it a ברכה


According to the ad in Mishpacha (just a few pages away from the Rabbinically approved ad for SellMyMilesNow.com..."trade in your miles for cash to get all those luxuries you've been dreaming of!")

This is the same rabbinical board that approves an advertisement with a picture of sufganiyot and the tagline "Its ok to lose control"  ::)

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #3114 on: March 05, 2019, 11:24:05 PM »
Kind of surprised you needed that in for a group on the Antarctica cruise.
For all the raffle winners :D
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Offline chff

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #3115 on: March 05, 2019, 11:24:43 PM »
Not even intentional, that's the only picture @Something Fishy took from both seminars :D

Here is a better one

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #3116 on: March 05, 2019, 11:27:29 PM »
I'm going to be interviewed by him tomorrow.
What topics should I bring up?
There's a misconception/lie/fabrication going around that this whole thing is somehow squarely on your shoulders for creating this idea and promoting a concept of recklessly opening credit cards for points and live a carefree lifestyle and just accumulating debt.. some go further to even claim you somehow promoted Sterling..

This is clearly coming from people who haven't the slightest clue to what they're talking about or what your about. Nor did they bother to even read or ask someone about it... Non the less this is being perpetuated and peddled if you want to dispell the notion use every pulpit you got...

Offline Yard sale

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #3117 on: March 05, 2019, 11:28:42 PM »
Even if you are correct they still would not be able to handle a $200k loss in one shot. 99% of people would have either worked the extra $ into their budget or blown it on something.

Math would be relatively simple its the data you need but assuming a straight 2% return every time their card was swiped for 200k would mean a $4k gain. now you just need to know how many times it was swiped and paid back before defaulting.

12months x $4k = $48k so if they were doing it monthly would take just over 4 years of this volume with a 2% return. (which is unlikely most were doing that volume on a 2% card IMO)



Consider it a ברכה

This is the same rabbinical board that approves an advertisement with a picture of sufganiyot and the tagline "Its ok to lose control"  ::)

The rabbinical rubber stamp board. The one that allowed the feature article on vegan currency that decried the cruelty of eating animal flesh....

Offline elimmm

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #3118 on: March 05, 2019, 11:50:42 PM »
I'm going to be interviewed by him tomorrow.
What topics should I bring up?
Be sure to record it yourself in case of edits!!!
Also, he will prob have the attitude of m many wealthy people that credit card churning is for poor uneducated people and that it's just a way to take advantage of credit card companies. His undertones are very loud. Since he runs the show, the only way you can outshout him is by quoting real numbers and facts and citing sources. You can't just tell him "the credit card companies want people to sign up because most people....."
Also, he'll def challenge you on going against T&c by selling points.
You'll prob want to explain how the banks strong-arm the cardholders when they are in the mood, how they shut down and steal hard-earned points at their discretion. Also, the way they devaluate points and how points don't have legal cash value.
Lastly, tell him not to compare the Amazon tragedy to 9/11. And don't forget to talk about wealthy people declaring bankruptcy to save their assests. Ask him if that's also against his ethics.

Offline rileywiles23

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #3119 on: March 06, 2019, 12:02:50 AM »
The cc issuer is not the processing bank?

If you get a card from Chase, Chase doesn’t process the payment?
Correct.

It's a third party bank that processes the transaction to get the money to the merchant.

Here is a good article explaining it

https://www.vantiv.com/payment-processing/how-credit-card-processing-works
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