Topic Wiki

https://www.dansdeals.com/more/dans-commentary/dark-side-earning-credit-card-points-psa-dont-swipe-others/

https://www.mixcloud.com/zev-brenner/talkline-with-zev-brenner-on-credit-card-scams-affecting-the-orthodox-jewish-community/

http://podcast.headlinesbook.com/e/31616-credit-card-miles-and-points-swiping-for-rewards-buying-and-selling-miles-is-it-assur-and-a-chillul-hashem-or-a-great-way-for-a-side-parnassah/



BEFORE SWIPING FOR SOMEONE READ THIS: (first hand story)

https://forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=36812.msg2062371#msg2062371
https://www.dansdeals.com/more/dans-commentary/dark-side-earning-credit-card-points-psa-dont-swipe-others/#comment-1399884


Dan's warning to DDF:
I hope people realize that any buying group or anyone else that gets merchandise in advance of payment can go south at any time. That's even if you get a check at the time of delivery.
X-posting as I don't want anyone to say that I never put a warning here.

A story that ended up in court - https://iapps.courts.state.ny.us/nyscef/DocumentList?docketId=iRcRHuyZUdOIx69D00a5XQ==&display=all&courtType=Kings%20County%20Supreme%20Court&resultsPageNum=1


I am one of the biggest buyers for buying groups, I have done millions in transactions and have sent to every group there is over the past 3 years. Most buying groups are okay, some scan in slower than others, some pay slower than others - most will lose a few packages over the year. You can research and find which are better for you.

However there is a bigger problem now with Amazon itself.  Amazon in the past has been great with any problems always ready with a refund for lost packages even if it was thousands of dollars. Lately Amazon has clamped down and has tagged these buying groups addresses  in their systems as "freight forwarder" and now no longer will fix any problem you have whatsoever. Doesn't matter what the problem is, even if it shows the package was never delivered, amazon will not help you in any way. Their copy and paste response will always be "this item was sent to a freight forwarder and we're unable to replace or refund the item. We recommend contacting your freight forwarder for more details, as we don't have any more insight or information regarding this matter, For more information about sending items via freight forwarders, please visit our Help Pages: https://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=201117950." As well the amazon drivers either must know this or have been increasingly bad at delivering packages because the numbers of packages missing has gone up astronomically. Previously you would have very few packages missing, now the past 3 months I have had 59 "lost" packages. I now have over $15,000 of loses and some guy in Delaware is probably living the life with all the stuff he stole from me. I will survive, I have made a lot more than $15,000 over the years however just a warning to others here that things are not as they used to be and it really is no longer worth doing buring groups with all the loses piling up

« Last edited by Yo ssi on July 24, 2023, 06:47:26 PM »

Author Topic: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others  (Read 1183093 times)

Offline zale

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #3120 on: March 06, 2019, 01:04:46 AM »
Correct.

It's a third party bank that processes the transaction to get the money to the merchant.

Here is a good article explaining it

https://www.vantiv.com/payment-processing/how-credit-card-processing-works

Maybe I’m missing something, but that article seems to say that the funds come from the issuing bank.

Offline chff

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #3121 on: March 06, 2019, 01:28:28 AM »
The cc issuer is not the processing bank?

If you get a card from Chase, Chase doesn’t process the payment?

Chase has a separate division that does payment processing > chasepaymentech.com

The payment processors are such like First Data or Elavon (Elavon is subsidiary from US Bank and airlines is one of their specialty)

Offline Ephraimh

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #3122 on: March 06, 2019, 09:00:24 AM »
Be sure to record it yourself in case of edits!!!
Also, he will prob have the attitude of m many wealthy people that credit card churning is for poor uneducated people and that it's just a way to take advantage of credit card companies. His undertones are very loud. Since he runs the show, the only way you can outshout him is by quoting real numbers and facts and citing sources. You can't just tell him "the credit card companies want people to sign up because most people....."
Also, he'll def challenge you on going against T&c by selling points.
You'll prob want to explain how the banks strong-arm the cardholders when they are in the mood, how they shut down and steal hard-earned points at their discretion. Also, the way they devaluate points and how points don't have legal cash value.
Lastly, tell him not to compare the Amazon tragedy to 9/11. And don't forget to talk about wealthy people declaring bankruptcy to save their assests. Ask him if that's also against his ethics.
Lol I’ve never listened to his podcast but from the way you and others describe his attitude it sure sounds like he has a massive arrogant chip on his shoulders..

Offline sruly

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #3123 on: March 06, 2019, 09:50:32 AM »
Math would be relatively simple its the data you need but assuming a straight 2% return every time their card was swiped for 200k would mean a $4k gain. now you just need to know how many times it was swiped and paid back before defaulting.
Something you haven't considered is all the sign up bonuses that they were able to hit that they wouldn't have otherwise.
Also alll the yearly bonuses for hitting spending thresholds (extra points, free nights, status etc.).

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #3124 on: March 06, 2019, 09:52:19 AM »
Lol I’ve never listened to his podcast but from the way you and others describe his attitude it sure sounds like he has a massive arrogant chip on his shoulders..
Keep in mind that his credentials to be discussing halacha are that he is wealthy.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Online aygart

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #3125 on: March 06, 2019, 09:53:19 AM »
Kind of surprised you needed that in for a group on the Antarctica cruise.
For all the raffle winners :D
How many paid for the cruise using a credit card?
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline joey89

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #3126 on: March 06, 2019, 09:53:44 AM »
Something you haven't considered is all the sign up bonuses that they were able to hit that they wouldn't have otherwise.
Also alll the yearly bonuses for hitting spending thresholds (extra points, free nights, status etc.).
They were also only cycling their cl once every 2 months. So based on the assumptions in this scenario they were making 24k a year.

Offline Yard sale

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #3127 on: March 06, 2019, 10:02:26 AM »
Keep in mind that his credentials to be discussing halacha are that he is wealthy.

He is quite sharp and smart, don’t take that away from him, but he does have the platform because of his wealth, and he will come in with his preconceived ideas. For example in one podcast from  what I remember (you can listen to the archives) he was pushing the idea of a skirt having to be four inches below the knee, as well as other guidelines was bogus, and therefore not binding,  and he seemed to suggest that not only a tefach of hair but even a tefach above the knee should be ok according to the beis Yosef and others. So he definitely will come in with an agenda. He is smart and has yedios- he can quote relevant Gemara and teshuvos so it’s not like he is just blustering. [edited for accuracy]
« Last Edit: March 06, 2019, 10:36:16 AM by Yard sale »

Offline TimT

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #3128 on: March 06, 2019, 10:17:59 AM »
For example in one podcast from  what I remember (you can listen to the archives) he was pretty relentlessly pushing the Rabbonim he interviewed to admit that the idea of a skirt having to be four inches below the knee was bogus, and he was even trying to push the idea that a tefach above the knee should be ok.
Who won that round ?

Offline Yard sale

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #3129 on: March 06, 2019, 10:28:56 AM »
Who won that round ?
He had Rav Dovid Cohen who agreed with him that many of the tznius guidelines such as long skirts , type of material etc. are opinions of poskim rather than clear halachos with a mekor, but pushed back when Lichtenstein suggested that based on a teshuva of Rav Moshe allowing a tefach of hair to be uncovered etc. there is no obligation to follow guidelines that are machmir , pointing out to Lichtenstein that in places where this is the accepted mode of dress, to dress otherwise becomes assur....

Somehow Rav Falk never made it onto his show....

Offline Menachem613

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #3130 on: March 06, 2019, 10:31:13 AM »
He had Rav Dovid Cohen who agreed with him that many of the tznius guidelines such as long skirts , type of material etc. are opinions of poskim rather than clear halachos with a mekor, but pushed back when Lichtenstein suggested that based on a teshuva of Rav Moshe allowing a tefach of hair to be uncovered etc. there is no obligation to follow guidelines that are machmir , pointing out to Lichtenstein that in places where this is the accepted mode of dress, to dress otherwise becomes assur....

Somehow Rav Falk never made it onto his show....

Good.

Offline MrKaplan

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #3131 on: March 06, 2019, 10:32:02 AM »
Keep in mind that his credentials to be discussing halacha are that he is wealthy.
+1 Never understood this

Offline Yehuda57

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #3132 on: March 06, 2019, 10:33:00 AM »
+1 Never understood this
Start your own podcast

Offline Yard sale

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #3133 on: March 06, 2019, 10:35:21 AM »
Good.

May be good, but it’s indicative of the fact that he will come in with an opinion and will take one side of an issue and tilt the show toward it....

Offline Menachem613

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #3134 on: March 06, 2019, 10:55:20 AM »
May be good, but it’s indicative of the fact that he will come in with an opinion and will take one side of an issue and tilt the show toward it....

Sounds like every person with a radio show or equivalent. 

Offline Yehuda57

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #3135 on: March 06, 2019, 10:58:24 AM »
May be good, but it’s indicative of the fact that he will come in with an opinion and will take one side of an issue and tilt the show toward it....
He has people he disagrees with on all the time.

Offline Dan

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #3136 on: March 06, 2019, 11:02:13 AM »
Sounds amazing. What did y'all get me into  ???
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Offline boruchmig

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #3137 on: March 06, 2019, 11:09:46 AM »
Sounds amazing. What did y'all get me into  ???
He has lots of listeners, including many that are complaining about him on this group.
Keep your cool and your focus and you'll be good. You might even teach other being interviewed how to stay cool and stick to their ground.
Make your credentials clear, the fact that you run a successful business, and that you constantly warn people of scams.

Offline zh cohen

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #3138 on: March 06, 2019, 11:16:03 AM »
Sounds amazing. What did y'all get me into  ???

It's not as bad as I (and others) may have made it sound, especially since he probably agrees with you on this stuff. I think he just sometimes forgets that the purpose of having guests on is to hear their point of view, especially when it is a topic he is passionate about.

Online aygart

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Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #3139 on: March 06, 2019, 11:29:09 AM »
He is quite sharp and smart, don’t take that away from him, but he does have the platform because of his wealth, and he will come in with his preconceived ideas. For example in one podcast from  what I remember (you can listen to the archives) he was pushing the idea of a skirt having to be four inches below the knee, as well as other guidelines was bogus, and therefore not binding,  and he seemed to suggest that not only a tefach of hair but even a tefach above the knee should be ok according to the beis Yosef and others. So he definitely will come in with an agenda. He is smart and has yedios- he can quote relevant Gemara and teshuvos so it’s not like he is just blustering. [edited for accuracy]
a little learning is a dangerous thing. Sort of like giving advise on disputing credit card by being a DDF member.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2019, 11:33:37 AM by aygart »
Feelings don't care about your facts