Beautiful Unity Song (Rubashkin campaign)

[SuperFlyer]

Reb Chuchem, I was/am involved in the Japan case.

They did NOT know.

[chuchem]

Reb superflyer, i didnt think there was a case were you would not be involved ;-)
 i didnt say they knew and even if they did no one will admit it now. But i believe them.
I really dont want to start arguing about that case, but even according to the askonim dealing with it and i heard dayan weiss speaking, they knew something was hiden and that they were smugling, but they were naiv. My point was just that the whole frum world got together for 3 guys that were not "100%" kosher. But for gilad shalit nothing was done!

[steve2]

Steve2, you will agree that you don't like lubavitch, right?
You know that people know that you are not a fan of 770 & co.

So why say your "dayos" just to unpleasantly tickle peoples emotions here on DD.

A lot of Rabbis are serving time and for some reason, people aren't so keen to get them released, at least not to this extent.
Have we all been bribed?


On another hand, I believe -and so do most people around the globe- that the fact that the USA punishes so harshly people with crimes such as circumventing tax, etc, to the extend where it surpasses by far, violent crimes.

It shows where the whole brain and heart of the USA government lies...

Now, if you look at what the obama administration did with the stimulus, you feel like killing the guy (that's if you pay tax). If needed I will post some examples.

I believe that we can safely assume that the higher the court, ie the closer to the top, the more it stinks.

That's a very short and simple explanation, but the one that wants to understand will understand.

 it really has nothing to do with SR being Chabad. Nor my feelings towards them

 As i said in my 1st post I thought 27 yrs was a bit long and dont know what a proper sentence is, but what needs to be kept in mind is if you go to trail then the skys the limit if found guilty. SR was offered 15 yrs and turned it down, righlty or wrongly so but turn it down he did , thusly a person ha sto know if you are found guilty the sentence will be longer then what the offer was

 Now there are aves for Appeal to the Court of Appeals and Surpreme Court if either picks it up and agrees with those who say he was WRONGED so be it, but what if either or both of those Courts decide either not to hear the case or that he wasnt Wronged then what , are you going to sy the wholeystem is after SR and the Jews for being Jewish

 I say he was found Guilty and thusly belongs in jail for now unless a Court agrees that until the appeal is heard he can be freed. hopefully his lawyers have enough evidence! and not simply hucnhes that he was Wronged. it doesnt matter what others got as no 2 cases are the same

 what it comes down to IMO is he broke the law and was caught for whatever reason and then what is a proper sentence. so his appeal should be 1 against what he feels is a sentence that is out of wack length wise and if he should hav ebeen found guilty to begin with

 it might not make sense that someone who did armed robbery gets 10 yrs and he got 27, but if that is what is called for then thats what we have to live with

 again and this pretains to me as well, if a person isnt willing to do the Time , dont do the Crime

[steve2]

So basically your whole argument is based on the (false) premise that he was offered a fair plea deal which he turned down...
Regardless of how it will ultimately turn out, pretty much everyone other than you haters at PETA, the unions, the forward and in lakewood agree that he has been wronged.
Traffic court is an excellent example. The Cop claims whatever he wants and the onus is on you to prove your innocence instead of on the prosecution to prove your guilt.


two questions for you:
1. do you really believe justice was served?
2. according to you, how long does he deserve to sit in jail for?

1-  yes justice was served if thats what a Jury or Judge finds, now go get some Evidence that it was rigged and not simply flinging thngs like hail marys hoping something will stick

 2- I have no idea what length a proper sentence would be and somethings wrong when a Paris Hilton is caught with coke and gets off and yet if it was me or you wed be locked away in the slammer. Welcome to Amerika thats the way its always been and most likely to remain. Go to Singapore and spit on the ground i will see you in 20 yrs 9dont know the exact#) but you will be locked up, chewing Gum is just as bad

 If guide lines werent followed then appeal the sentence and if wronged either there will be a new trail or a resentencing if thats possible

 But SR is Not an Innocent person no matter why he did what was done

 Now I have no idea what a reasonable sentence should be for the crimes committed and found Guilty of,( I know people have been put to death and only yrs later it turns out that person was innocent, its not a perfect system) as well as guilty people being found innocent for crimes they did in fact committ. The question by me is how long of a setence should he have gotten No time isnt right nor is 27 yrs as long as it can be shown that its excessive

 Most people feel he should be set free I dont unless the Appeal court rules that he should never have been sentenced to 27 yrs and say 18 months should have been the max. and yes if Evidence can be produced that be it the judge or others acted wrongly then they too should have to deal with the consequences for abusing their office and power. But hear say wont do it Proof/Evidence is what is needed

[SuperFlyer]

Chuchem, you miss understood the dayan. They knew that they were taking stuff along, but they were asked to take antique furniture along, which should have been declared at the customs. The drugs wasn't in there, it just made it feel natural for the case to have a certain weight.

And yes they were naïve.

How many buchrim (before this case) wouldn't jump on a free ticket with some pocket money.

The suitcase had a double layer (was on display during thee case).

BTW, in the Rubashkin case I wasn't involved.   

[damaxer91]

1-  yes justice was served if thats what a Jury or Judge finds, now go get some Evidence that it was rigged and not simply flinging thngs like hail marys hoping something will stick
 

I always wondered who the people were (and what they were smoking) that were placed on the OJ Simpson Jury. I think that we may have found one right here!

P.S. You make me sick

[damaxer91]

I dont know the case well enough and just read the media (as most over here) its clear that they picked on him because that he is a jew and other reasons.

So keep your opinion to yourself. Did you ever think that its possible that some of his family are members of this forum?

And as for Gilad Shalit, just put his name into Youtube and you will find 50 songs made up just for him. Lipa even went to his family's "Sukkah" and sang for them on Sukkos

[chuchem]

So keep your opinion to yourself. Did you ever think that its possible that some of his family are members of this forum?

I didnt say anything against him, that might hurt the family. You dont have to be so agressiv.

[Deal Guy]

Reb superflyer, i didnt think there was a case were you would not be involved ;-)
 i didnt say they knew and even if they did no one will admit it now. But i believe them.
I really dont want to start arguing about that case, but even according to the askonim dealing with it and i heard dayan weiss speaking, they knew something was hiden and that they were smugling, but they were naiv. My point was just that the whole frum world got together for 3 guys that were not "100%" kosher. But for gilad shalit nothing was done!

What can we do with Shalit? . We are dealing with our cousins after all, and sometimes it's very hard to deal with family .
 As with Japan, they just have a very tough legal system, which we are trying to prove that it shouldn't apply in their cases.

[Deal Guy]

Pictures of all the singers: http://unityforjustice.com/gallery/


http://unityforjustice.com/documentary/
"The Unity project has put together a keepsake set, featuring:

A documentary film about the Rubashkin family and the myriad acts of kindness they performed for so many. Additionally the documentary features a rare peek inside the personal lives of Jewish music stars as they come together to use their distinctive talents to benefit federal prisoner Sholom Mordechai Rubashkin.

An audio CD featuring both the Unity song and bonus tracks

And a full color CD booklet containing photographs and biographies of the artists, lyrics to the song and more.

Produced by – Danny Finkelman
Directed by – Mauricio Arenas
Original Soundtrack by – Eli Lishinsky

This collectors edition DVD will be mailed free of charge to all who donate $25.00 or more to the Rubashkin defense fund."

For those that already donated till now, can they also get the DVD?

[steve2]

Mods please close this thread and delete the above posts. There are great pedestals in Hyde Park for people like Steve2.

 yea nothing like if a person disagrees with your view shut them up

I always wondered who the people were (and what they were smoking) that were placed on the OJ Simpson Jury. I think that we may have found one right here!

P.S. You make me sick

 thats yur problem dont read my posts!

 I love how if a person disagrees with your view the answer is to silence them

 If I remember correctly Dweck was gonna get 25 yrs for haing defrauded his banks by giving them checks that were of no value, he deserves alot more then that for what he did to numerous rabbis within the SY community. Including Rabbi Kasin who he more or less begged to so called help him out with cleaning some $$$.

Others were way too happy to help and didnt need any begging and will do their time, what he did to Rabbi Kassin among others he should sit 100 yrs for. Oh how can I think and feel that way Dweck and the SYs arent Lubos.

 The main problem as I see it (and I maybe wrong) is people have financial presures on them for various reasons some self inflicted having to keep up or ahead of their friends to others who want to give their kids a proper Jewish education etcetc and get caught up in doing whatever they have to in order to accomplish their goals. When and if caught the last thing they want to do is sit in jail and thusly are willing to do whatever they have to in order to avoid doing time (NOT the case with SR or Madorf). They feel no way will be they be caught and when they in fact are they will sell their own Mother if need be, thats why I have said over and over , if a person isnt willing to do the Time dont do the Crime.

[whYME]

Steve2, I can't figure out if you're really as stupid as you sound here or you're just blinded by hatred.
I actually just happened to come across a comic which describes your posts here perfectly:


Anywho, on to the issue at hand:

1-  yes justice was served if thats what a Jury or Judge finds

Wow, you really think the US justice system is completely infallible? Just because he was found guilty that means justice was served? (let me guess, you also think justice was served when Yankel Rosenbaum HY"D's murderer was found not guilty?)
You obviously can't believe that because you yourself wrote in the same post:

...a Paris Hilton is caught with coke and gets off and yet if it was me or you wed be locked away in the slammer...

...( I know people have been put to death and only yrs later it turns out that person was innocent, its not a perfect system) as well as guilty people being found innocent for crimes they did in fact committ.

So you're saying that if he was found guilty justice was served, yet in the same breath you say the system is unfair and doesn't always work?!

now go get some Evidence that it was rigged and not simply flinging thngs like hail marys hoping something will stick

I can't give you evidence that it was "rigged" but it is clear that something is very wrong here. you can read MA Congressman Bill Delahunt's letter to AG Eric Holder for some of the key points.
A few select quotes: "This case illustrates that injustice can happen and that grossly disparate sentences may be imposed..."
"This case raises very serious issues of judicial and prosecutorial misconduct"
"the sentence has been criticized by many lawyers and legal scholars, including six former U.S. attorney generals..."

SR was offered 15 yrs and turned it down, righlty or wrongly so but turn it down he did , thusly a person ha sto know if you are found guilty the sentence will be longer then what the offer was

ok, so we can't compare him to other similar cases where the offender only got a slap on the wrist because they pleaded guilty there, but you have no problem that he was offered 15 years instead of the same slap on the wrist?

2- I have no idea what length a proper sentence would be...

Now I have no idea what a reasonable sentence should be for the crimes committed and found Guilty of

So you have no idea what would be considered a reasonable sentence yet you have no problem coming here and saying he deserves to sit for a long time?! How can you possibly say that he deserves what he got and he was treated fairly if you have no idea what he should actually get?!

I'm sure hatred has nothing to do with it...

(and while we're (kinda) on the subject, why don't you tell us why he deserves to sit for "a long time"? do you still stand by what you said that it's because he hired minors and illegals?)



I don't see how bringing in other cases where other frum yidden are sitting - and rightfully so (at least according to US law)- helps your point...

[steve2]

 whYME all I can say is you can think and feel what ever you wish to, just as I can and do. You dont have  to agree with me nor I with you

 I still cant figure out why CH has gone crazy over SR would they have if he wasnt a Chabadnik himself, for some reason I cant help but feel they wouldnt have done anything but thats their problem

 Most of those who got slapped on the wrist Never went to trail and pleaded guilty, Which is not what has occured with SR. Were/are there people who were/are gunning for SR most likely but that doesnt mean he should be allowed to be found guilty and then sent home.

Do your homework find me cases where a person pleaded Not Guilty went to trail was found Guity and only got their hand slapped, then I will say you have what to stand on. Till then SR should Appeal his sentence and present why they feel its Unjust and more then what it should be and as Ive said either the US Court of Appeals or Surpreme Court can decide what if anything was done incorrectly. Again I ask you what you will say ifeither or both courts decide not to hear the case or rule against SR and leave either his sentence as is or reduces it to say 15 yrs???

 

[whYME]

whYME all I can say is you can think and feel what ever you wish to, just as I can and do. You dont have  to agree with me nor I with you

 I still cant figure out why CH has gone crazy over SR would they have if he wasnt a Chabadnik himself, for some reason I cant help but feel they wouldnt have done anything but thats their problem

 Most of those who got slapped on the wrist Never went to trail and pleaded guilty, Which is not what has occured with SR. Were/are there people who were/are gunning for SR most likely but that doesnt mean he should be allowed to be found guilty and then sent home.

Do your homework find me cases where a person pleaded Not Guilty went to trail was found Guity and only got their hand slapped, then I will say you have what to stand on. Till then SR should Appeal his sentence and present why they feel its Unjust and more then what it should be and as Ive said either the US Court of Appeals or Surpreme Court can decide what if anything was done incorrectly. Again I ask you what you will say ifeither or both courts decide not to hear the case or rule against SR and leave either his sentence as is or reduces it to say 15 yrs???

 

Translation:
"I have nothing to answer so I'll just repeat the same crap I've been saying"

I still cant figure out why CH has gone crazy over SR would they have if he wasnt a Chabadnik himself, for some reason I cant help but feel they wouldnt have done anything but thats their problem

That's completely irrelevant. (well, it would be if your opinion was based on something other than your hatred of Lubavitch)
Also, there's a big difference between not actively fighting for a cause and opposing it.

Again I ask you what you will say ifeither or both courts decide not to hear the case or rule against SR and leave either his sentence as is or reduces it to say 15 yrs???

If they refuse to hear the case I'll say the same thing I'm saying now.
If they do hear it, I don't know, we'll have to see how it plays out.

[steve2]

Translation:
"I have nothing to answer so I'll just repeat the same crap I've been saying"

That's completely irrelevant. (well, it would be if your opinion was based on something other than your hatred of Lubavitch)
Also, there's a big difference between not actively fighting for a cause and opposing it.

If they refuse to hear the case I'll say the same thing I'm saying now.
If they do hear it, I don't know, we'll have to see how it plays out.

 seems to me that you are the one that simply listens to whatever CH is saying and if CH says something then it must be true

 I asked you to show me 1 case where a person pleaded Not Guilty and was found Guilty and only got their wrist slapped, Im still waiying after all compare apples to apples and in order to do so you need to compare like cases.  Till you do so theres nothing to discuss with you since it seems all you are doing is posting whatever the local theme of the day is out of CH. I can get a parrot at any pet store if all I wanted to hear over and over is what others are saying

[whYME]

seems to me that you are the one that simply listens to whatever CH is saying and if CH says something then it must be true

 I asked you to show me 1 case where a person pleaded Not Guilty and was found Guilty and only got their wrist slapped, Im still waiying after all compare apples to apples and in order to do so you need to compare like cases.  Till you do so theres nothing to discuss with you since it seems all you are doing is posting whatever the local theme of the day is out of CH. I can get a parrot at any pet store if all I wanted to hear over and over is what others are saying

ok, we'll keep going around in circles...

1. The problem started long before the sentence. He was wronged from the start. read here for more info. (I know it's coming from the Rubashkin campaign, feel free to dispute any facts that you think are wrong)

2. I don't know of any similar cases, however:
A. As far as the cattle charges go, as far as anyone knows, this is the first time in the law's 100 year existence that anyone was charged with this.
B. As I've said, part of the problem is that he wasn't offered a fair plea deal.
C. After all was said and done, what should the sentence have been? I'll leave that to the experts. According to former judge Paul Cassel and former US Attorney Brett Tolman as well as a whole bunch of law professors, it should've been  "in the neighborhood of six years"



Getting back to the point, you said he "deserves a long sentence" yet you say you have no idea how long a proper sentence is?! And why don't you at least tell us why he deserves a long sentence? (unless what your trying to say is he deserves a long sentence simply for having the nerve to plead not guilty?)


I think it's better to repeat what "CH" is saying then to repeat what PETA and the rest of the anti-semites are saying.

[moish]

arent there sentencing guidelines in this country. are you completely disregarding them?

[steve2]

arent there sentencing guidelines in this country. are you completely disregarding them?

 thats the point, there are a few different kinds of Guidelines if aperson pleads guilty or if they dont and are found guilty , it cant be the same otherwise those that are wont ever plead guilty and save the State or Feds the costs and time of a trail which isnt cheap

 Then at times a judge can still sentence a person to either less time or more tim ethen the guidelines

 So if a person feels they were handed a sentence that wasnt fair they have the Right to Appeal the sentence. People who should have put to death are known to have Appeapled and reappealed for decades, yes they remained in jail throughout that period of time. And yes Innocentb people are declared Guilty and Guilty people found Not Guilty

[steve2]

ok, we'll keep going around in circles...

1. The problem started long before the sentence. He was wronged from the start. read here for more info. (I know it's coming from the Rubashkin campaign, feel free to dispute any facts that you think are wrong)

2. I don't know of any similar cases, however:
A. As far as the cattle charges go, as far as anyone knows, this is the first time in the law's 100 year existence that anyone was charged with this.
B. As I've said, part of the problem is that he wasn't offered a fair plea deal.
C. After all was said and done, what should the sentence have been? I'll leave that to the experts. According to former judge Paul Cassel and former US Attorney Brett Tolman as well as a whole bunch of law professors, it should've been  "in the neighborhood of six years"



Getting back to the point, you said he "deserves a long sentence" yet you say you have no idea how long a proper sentence is?! And why don't you at least tell us why he deserves a long sentence? (unless what your trying to say is he deserves a long sentence simply for having the nerve to plead not guilty?)


I think it's better to repeat what "CH" is saying then to repeat what PETA and the rest of the anti-semites are saying.

 1- there is alot more to his problems some self inflicted others not. its not the 1st time btw that he had problems. NO different then telling a cop that pulled you over for speeding you cant give me a tkt I wasnt the only car that was speeding, if you were speeding and was the only 1 pulled over thats that. If theres acop who has pulled you over before and either has warned you or knows you then it makes sense to me to avoid that cops area if you cant than Dont Speed anywhere in that town

2- gee there are lawyers and AGs that feel its not fair, big deal you can find that on any case heck any lawyer can argue the case for either vside and defend with their own reasonong why the person is Innocent or Guilty.It all depends on whos paying them. And yes anumber of those who hav ecome out for SR are on his legal team and being paid for being so

 3- Im not simply saying what others are saying and PETA is a PITA

 what you dont want to realize is that at times people while conducting business will tick off many aperson and once they slip up look out, just like when a politian slips up the vultures will circle till then find a time when its best to attack

when you play with matches eventually you will get burnt. most ponzi schemes dont start out that way, its just the person made a few bad deals and then thinks they can get back on track if they only had some more cash etcSR made certain decissions that he felt was best for his business and to make it worthwhile being in business, eventually it caught up to them

 Bank fraud usually isnt just a slap on the wrist, to me a long sentence means a min of 10 yrs. i happen to know where people knew they would be caught but still proceeded since they were willing to sit for what they thought would be 5 yrs and when they got out a few million was waiting for them. Thats why Madorf pleaded Guilty he figured the rest of his family would end up keeping the money they stashed and he felt at his age he already lived and did what he wanted to so he decided he will go to jail and hoped as a result the rest of his family will live very comfortably and so far his plan is working



 But you guys simply feel and want to play all the anti cards.

[moish]

thats the point, there are a few different kinds of Guidelines if aperson pleads guilty or if they dont and are found guilty , it cant be the same otherwise those that are wont ever plead guilty and save the State or Feds the costs and time of a trail which isnt cheap

 Then at times a judge can still sentence a person to either less time or more tim ethen the guidelines

 So if a person feels they were handed a sentence that wasnt fair they have the Right to Appeal the sentence. People who should have put to death are known to have Appeapled and reappealed for decades, yes they remained in jail throughout that period of time. And yes Innocentb people are declared Guilty and Guilty people found Not Guilty

my comment wasnt directed to you